Arctic Fox and 2500?

[Mark31]

Folks, I'm drooling over an Arctic Fox 275L (like Grizzly's). GVWR is 12k, empty is 8560, dry pin weight is 1500. Is this too much for my sig truck to go wherever? I know at least get a Maxbrake or Brakesmart. I pulled my gneck and tractor down to Columbia MS after Katrina weighing 23,600. The hills were tough! I feel pretty confident pulling like that. Mostly, I'm just local when loaded. My McElrath trailer has electric over hydraulic brakes and (I believe) 3 inch drums that will stop the load. But with some of the posts, especially that long-running wreck post that drew battle lines between single and dual rear wheel owners, I'm wondering sometimes if I'm having a false sense of security. What do you think? I sure hope this doesn't stir up too much! LOL! Mark

 

[CKelley1]

with a sliding 5th wheel, maxbrake or smartbrake and e rated tires you are set to go. some time in the future call bd and get a bd exhaust brake and a 48re upgrade it is safer and will save money in the long run.

 

[Jumbo Jet]

I have pulled a 5th Wheel Laredo 29BH that weighs the exact same for over 28,000 miles. About 20,000 of those were with a RAM 2500. Only reason I went with the 3500 was the Lance Truck Camper that weighs 4,000 lbs.

 

[LRutigliano]

Folks, I'm drooling over an Arctic Fox 275L (like Grizzly's). GVWR is 12k, empty is 8560, dry pin weight is 1500. Is this too much for my sig truck to go wherever? I know at least get a Maxbrake or Brakesmart. I pulled my gneck and tractor down to Columbia MS after Katrina weighing 23,600. The hills were tough! I feel pretty confident pulling like that. Mostly, I'm just local when loaded. My McElrath trailer has electric over hydraulic brakes and (I believe) 3 inch drums that will stop the load. But with some of the posts, especially that long-running wreck post that drew battle lines between single and dual rear wheel owners, I'm wondering sometimes if I'm having a false sense of security. What do you think? I sure hope this doesn't stir up too much! LOL! Mark

I assume that you are wondering if its too much weight for your suspension. You can get Timbren overload rubber springs. I had them on my 3500 when I had the 4100lb Eagle Cap camper and they are great because they only are engaged when the rear suspension is loaded.



However, another thing to consider is that your 04' might not have enough power to tow 12k in the hills. My '03 was a DOG (IMO) pulling the big grades we have here with the 11k 5er. It was fine with the 4100lb Eagle Cap and a 4000lb boat/trailer in tow, but that extra 3k from the 5er put me over the top for pulling power. I think my floorboard has a permanent foot print in it from me pushing as hard as possible on the GO pedal... That started me down the path of mods...

 

[Grizzly]

Mark, you and I have talked about this before. I believe your 04 will handle a 27-5L Arctic Fox 5th wheel just fine. Not too sure about your short bed, however I hear great things about the sliding hitches. The reason I have a 3500 DRW is because I had an 11' 3" Lance camper on it. I must say, I do like the stability of the training wheels, but they're not necessary for that size 5er.



By the way, my 27-5L Arctic Fox has a GVWR of 13K lbs. See brochure. The weight of my truck and 5er loaded for a weekend fishing trip, with my wife and I in the truck, fuel tank and propane tanks full and water tank half full was just over 20k lbs.



I do have the BrakeSmart and recently added a PacBrake.



george

 

[HBarlow]

Folks, I'm drooling over an Arctic Fox 275L (like Grizzly's). GVWR is 12k, empty is 8560, dry pin weight is 1500. Is this too much for my sig truck to go wherever? I know at least get a Maxbrake or Brakesmart. I pulled my gneck and tractor down to Columbia MS after Katrina weighing 23,600. The hills were tough! I feel pretty confident pulling like that. Mostly, I'm just local when loaded. My McElrath trailer has electric over hydraulic brakes and (I believe) 3 inch drums that will stop the load. But with some of the posts, especially that long-running wreck post that drew battle lines between single and dual rear wheel owners, I'm wondering sometimes if I'm having a false sense of security. What do you think? I sure hope this doesn't stir up too much! LOL! Mark

Mark, "dry weights" are of no value whatsoever to you and can lead to self-deception and an overload condition.

The only weights to use if you want an accurate estimate of loaded to travel weights is maximum GVWR. That figure is much more likely to be your actual weight when loaded for travel.

I have no idea what the GVWR of the Arctic Fox trailer you are considering is but if Grizzly says it is 13,000# I'd recommend using that figure. Kingpin weight is usually 10 to 15% of GVWR.

For the safety of yourself, your family, and other motorists please don't talk yourself into a trailer that will overload your rear axle.

 

[BrianJ]

You are not going to come close to exceeding the rear axle or tire rating with that trailer, even maxxed out at GVWR. I have put enough trailers on the scale with my short bed and slider hitch (superglide) to know that it takes a pin weight of 3k or so to approach the axle and tire (E) ratings. The trailer mentioned will likely reach or slightly exceed a pin weight of 2k when loaded, which will put it over the payload rating of a 2500, but well within spec on the axles and tires. The 2500 has the same axle and tires as a 3500, just lacks the overloads. Add airbags or beef up the leaf springs to help with sag and you should have no problems. While it won't officially change any ratings, I would have no personal issue loading a 2500 with airbags to the capacity of a SRW 3500, of which the trailer mentioned will fall within.

 

[AABEN]

I assume that you are wondering if its too much weight for your suspension. You can get Timbren overload rubber springs. I had them on my 3500 when I had the 4100lb Eagle Cap camper and they are great because they only are engaged when the rear suspension is loaded.



However, another thing to consider is that your 04' might not have enough power to tow 12k in the hills. My '03 was a DOG (IMO) pulling the big grades we have here with the 11k 5er. It was fine with the 4100lb Eagle Cap and a 4000lb boat/trailer in tow, but that extra 3k from the 5er put me over the top for pulling power. I think my floorboard has a permanent foot print in it from me pushing as hard as possible on the GO pedal... That started me down the path of mods...

I have a 03 that when loaded and my fifth wheel it goes 22. 900+ I have had it all over the west and a cross I-8 from SD CL. to AZ. and did not have any trouble pulling it . Yes it is stock except for the volant air box.

 

[OGaddis]

I've been pulling an Arctic Fox 27-5L for 10 years now. GVW on our 2000 model year is 10,400 lbs. I pulled it for 8 years with our stock 3/4 ton 1997 Dodge CTD with manual transmission. The last 2 years I have used our stock 1 ton dually 2007 Dodge CTD with manual transmission. Like the others, I bought the dually primarily for our cabover camper. The weight of the 1998 Lance 9'-6" camper is only 2600 lbs but I needed to be able to pull a 4 horse trailer at the same time. I prefer pulling the fifth wheel with the dually but always felt well in control when using the 3/4 ton. The dually seems to add significantly better stability, especially when windy, with both the trailer and camper. However, in the winter the dually gets parked and I use the 3/4 ton. It gets great traction with the camper on the back on the snow covered roads. So there you go, get one of each!



I never had a problem with sagging when pulling the fifth wheel with the 3/4 ton. With the 1 ton the overload springs are not even engaged. It sounds like they have changed the 27-5L some over the years as the GVW is quite a bit higher on some of these posts than our trailer.

 

[Grizzly]

OGaddis,



Our 08 Arctic Fox, 27-05L, has changed some from your 2000. In 05 Northwood Mfg went to aluminum framed walls, which should make it lighter. It's called the Silver Fox Addition. The GVWR of 13K lbs I stated is right out of the 2008 brochure. The ready for travel weight of 20K lbs I stated is actual scale weight with the truck and trailer on the scale.

 

[OGaddis]

Grizzly,

Yes, I knew they had gone to the aluminum upper frame so I was surprised that the newer ones weighed substantially more than ours (the weight I quoted came from the 2000 catalog). I looked at the current floor plan and realized that there is now a small slide in the bedroom which ours does not have. Maybe that accounts for the additional weight. Do you know how they join the aluminum frame, that is, do they use welded construction or fittings and adhesives?

 

[Grizzly]

Grizzly,

Yes, I knew they had gone to the aluminum upper frame so I was surprised that the newer ones weighed substantially more than ours (the weight I quoted came from the 2000 catalog). I looked at the current floor plan and realized that there is now a small slide in the bedroom which ours does not have. Maybe that accounts for the additional weight. Do you know how they join the aluminum frame, that is, do they use welded construction or fittings and adhesives?

It's a welded super structure with wood in the studs for screws to have a better grip. I believe the wood is only placed in the studs where cabinets and partitions are attached to the super structure.



They have guided tours at the factory in La Grande, OR. We haven't made the tour yet, but we will. I have however spoke to some of the factory reps on numerous occasions and they have explained to me how they build the super structure and their own frames. I believe they have a lot of good and dedicated people there.

 

[RVTRKN]

I'll respond later when I have time, but yes you can, because my 33. 5v Arctic Fox will, behind my 2500 weighed at the scales.

 

[RVTRKN]

Here is a link you can check your exact info. 2004 Dodge Ram Information With the info you have on your sig here are the numbers





GVWR 9000

Pay load 2450

Drive axle (rear) 6000

Steer axle (front) 4630

GCWR 20,000

Max trailer wt. 13,300





If you click tow ratings in the upper right of the link, the Dodge numbers will be your guide and you will be OK even at 12K, with your tanks full. (you must weigh it at the scales to know exact #) These are Dodges numbers, but you only need to pay attention to the axle weights on your drivers door if your out of warranty, to be legal, and weighing it at the scales is your guide. But it seems to me your going to be OK. You can do simple calculations, per the tank volumes (gallons x weight per one gallon of water = total wet weight), don't forget the gear weight.



With my 34' Arctic Fox, I can tow it legally with only a full tank of fresh water, and I dump that if not needed, only a couple of gallons for toilet use. If I plan on a heavy load, I haul it with my 3500. The reason is the MPG I get with my 2500. The 3500 C&C with the DPF only gets 8-9 MPG verses 13-15 MPG with the 2500 without the DPF .

 

[THoltz]

RVTRKN,



Do yo have a link for the 2002 models specs?



Am I correctly understanding your statement that in order to be legal you need only comply with the axle weight rating posted on the door frame and that the other ratings are for Dodge warranty purposes only?



Thanks for the info.

 

[Ram4Sam]

This should help...



2001 RAM Pickup Payload and Towing Charts



Sam

 

[THoltz]

Thank you Sam.

 

[Zorki1c]

We have a 2003 27-5L it has a pin dry weightof about 1300 lbs and a dry weight of something over 8,000 lbs. each year they got heavier. One reason for the weight increase was rhey added 6 inches width tto the 27-5L. Ther has been a huge weight gain. I dont think i would want to pull a 2016 27-5L with my 2005 2500 crew diesel.