Arctic Fox Axles?

[Tommie]

As some of you know, I have been looking for a good used travel trailer for about a month now. I found a used Arctic Fox 25R and now a new 2009 Arctic Fox 25P has been located. (same dealer)



Here is the deal... ..... I have read a lot about Dexter being the axle of choice. So I ask the dealer to find out what axles the two AF had on them. As it turns out, the 25R has Dexter and the new 2009 25P has Lippert.



I was completely surprised to hear that the AF had Lippert axles under it.



So... ... ... is Lippert a deal buster on the new 25P???



Now I'm more confused than ever. I didn't think AF would put a Lippert axle under their trailers.



Please advise... ... ..... this deal was almost done!

 

[Wertles]

Lippert axles got that trailer from the factory to the dealer just fine. Are they the same quality as Dexter? Based on previous years they have not been but if you look at the many campers you pass being towed on the road, a large number are on Lippert frames and axles. Only you know on what types of roads you will be trailering on and how many miles you will be putting on those axles. If you are going to be traveling on the Alaskan highway every week, you need the best axles and frames made. If you are on paved highways a couple weekends a year, the Lipperts will last the life of the trailer. As with all trailers, vigilant maintenance and inspections are the key to make any part last.

 

[HBarlow]

Wertles did not say anything in his post above that is factually incorrect, it is simply a judgement call on the buyer's part. Personally, I would not buy a trailer on Lippert running gear. I have read of far too many that have experienced bad and broken welds where the spring mounts are attached to the frame, broken springs, axles inadequate for the weight that have sagged leaving the wheels canted and wearing the insides of tires, failed wheel bearings, etc. Lippert relies on cheap quality components sourced from China including axles, springs, wheel bearings, brake parts, and more.

I would prefer the older trailer with Dexter running gear if it were my buying experience.

Several months ago a family was broken down on the side of the highway about 1/2 mile from my farmhouse. I drove down to see if they needed help. They were towing a brand new Forest River cheapo fifth wheel with Lippert/ChiComm running gear. They were about 50 miles from the dealer's lot on their first trip with their new trailer when a wheel bearing and race failed. I invited them to limp it down the highway to my place on three wheels. We pulled the hub and they sent their women folk into Lubbock to an autoparts store and bought a replacement bearing and race. We put it back together and sent them on their way. Last I heard they were extremely dissatisfied with their trailer and trying to force the dealer to take the trailer back. Good luck on that.

 

[Tommie]

Dang it Harvey..... you know how to make a fellow Texan feel good!

 

[mwilson]

You could also ask if they would install Dexter axles in it, they might if the Lipperts are a deal-breaker.

I changed mine over to the thick walled Dexters and used the wheel end hardware and brakes over again (which were fine).

It does not cost very much to do and what a difference in the way the trailer tows and behaves itself.



Just a thought... .



Mike.

 

[Tommie]

I sent the dealer an email stating that the Lippert running gear "is" a deal breaker for me and to see if he would be willing to upgrade to the Dexters. I will just have to wait and see what he says. I'm sure he would be glad to get that new 2009 off his lot. Maybe the Lippert running gear is why he still has it??

You could also ask if they would install Dexter axles in it, they might if the Lipperts are a deal-breaker.

I changed mine over to the thick walled Dexters and used the wheel end hardware and brakes over again (which were fine).

It does not cost very much to do and what a difference in the way the trailer tows and behaves itself.



Just a thought... .



Mike.

 

[HBarlow]

Dang it Harvey..... you know how to make a fellow Texan feel good!

Sorry, you didn't specify that you only wanted good news replies. Sometimes the truth is not what posters want to hear. I'll always write the truth as I know it and my opinions. Others are free to make the buying decisions they prefer.

 

[JLandry]

FWIW, my 2007 Arctic Fox 25R (which I REALLY like) came with Dexter axles, but even they had Chinese-made bearings, races, and seals throughout. It's a sign of the times I guess.

I haven't replaced any of the bearings or races, and so far with annual cleaning, inspections, and re-greasing I've had no problems... knock on Filon. I carry spare bearings, races, seals, and grease just-in-case!

John L.

 

[Tommie]

Harvey, you said exactly what I was thinking. I appreciate your honest and straight forward advice. I have requested the dealer replace the Lippert axles with Dexters. If not, I will probably go out there and inspect the 2006 25R.



I will have to replace all the tires and have the wheel bearings & brakes checked before I head back to Texas, but at least I will know I started out with good running gear under the trailer.

Sorry, you didn't specify that you only wanted good news replies. Sometimes the truth is not what posters want to hear. I'll always write the truth as I know it and my opinions. Others are free to make the buying decisions they prefer.

 

[DGerth]

If you opt for the AF they are very good units. I have towed mine for over 65K miles with out any thing major. 3 sets of tires, had a bad set thrown in, no bearings yet, and 3 sets of batteries. Have spent a week at -12 degs comfortably. This probably our 6th unit and most likely our last. We like it.
dg

 

[mwilson]

For the curious types on here... .



This is how easy it is to order Dexter Trailer Axles... . this link is through one of my vendors, nice company to deal with.



Use this link. . http://www.newlifeparts.com/newlife/catalog/nl/nl_section_2.pdf



Go to page 41, For example I ordered the following... ... .

6,000 lb axles,

no brakes, (used existing brakes and backing plates over)

with brake mounting flange,

ez lube style,

less springs,

spring mounts over,

1. 75" wide spring mount.



You supply the hub face measurement and center to center dimensions of the spring mounts.



EZ, Peazy.



Dexter builds them to your spec so must be measured correctly!!!



They show up in about a week via UPS ground.



If I ever bend one I will never attempt to repair it, just replace it.



Mike.

 

[BIGNASTY]

Wertles did not say anything in his post above that is factually incorrect, it is simply a judgement call on the buyer's part. Personally, I would not buy a trailer on Lippert running gear. I have read of far too many that have experienced bad and broken welds where the spring mounts are attached to the frame, broken springs, axles inadequate for the weight that have sagged leaving the wheels canted and wearing the insides of tires, failed wheel bearings, etc. Lippert relies on cheap quality components sourced from China including axles, springs, wheel bearings, brake parts, and more.



I would prefer the older trailer with Dexter running gear if it were my buying experience.



Several months ago a family was broken down on the side of the highway about 1/2 mile from my farmhouse. I drove down to see if they needed help. They were towing a brand new Forest River cheapo fifth wheel with Lippert/ChiComm running gear. They were about 50 miles from the dealer's lot on their first trip with their new trailer when a wheel bearing and race failed. I invited them to limp it down the highway to my place on three wheels. We pulled the hub and they sent their women folk into Lubbock to an autoparts store and bought a replacement bearing and race. We put it back together and sent them on their way. Last I heard they were extremely dissatisfied with their trailer and trying to force the dealer to take the trailer back. Good luck on that.

Im not denying that some products are just CRAP but in the case of the wheel bearing and race failure. That could have happened to any product. Not all the blame is to be dropped on the manufacture. Has the wheel bearing even have been packed with grease, was it loose was it tight ,was it indeed a faulty bearing not the blame of Lippert Or quite possibly that the installer just didn't give a damn that friday and wanted to go couch wrassle with his girl friend or in the case of So Calif his boy friend. Harvey I trust your judgement on ALL things RV but I think even you would have to admit that the wheel bearing failure 50 miles from the RV store would have to be some kind of other problem other than Lippert

 

[Grizzly]

Tommie,



I just got off the phone with a Service Rep from Northwood Mfg, who manufacture Arctic Fox, Nash and Desert Fox. I asked the question if they use Lippert axles on any AF TT or 5th Wheels. He said that since 2007 they started using Lippert axles on only the smaller trailers. The larger trailers still use Dexter axle because Dexter does make a better axle, which are all never-lube. He said that his preference is Dexter, however they have had no issues with Lippert, which are USA made. That may surprise some of you. He also said that they make all their own frames and that Lippert frames, which some other manufactures use, are also USA made. Lippert does not make axles and frames in China, he said.



He suggested that if you purchase the 2009 25P to leave the Lippert axles on it and that at some point in time if you should have an issue with the axles to install Dexter. He didn't believe you would ever have an issue with the axles under normal use on that small of a trailer. He also said that if they felt that Lippert axles would be a problem on the smaller lighter trailers, they would never use them.



Tommie, if you have any questions on Arctic Fox, pick up the phone and call them at 1 800-766-6274. Ask for a Service Rep, there easy to talk to.



george

 

[Tommie]

This is a very interesting situation we have going on here. I also called Northwood Mfg. not over 45 minutes ago. I was directed to a young man named Scott, who I believe is a sales guy there. I told him what I was wanting to know and he put me on hold and according to him talked to a service rep about the 2009 25P.

When he came back on the line, he promptly said, " go buy the 2009 because it has Dexter axles under it ". He said that all the 2009 25P units had Dexter axles under them. Go figure... ... !

So I called the dealer back and told him what I had been told. The dealer told me that he had looked under the trailer and saw a tag with LIP stamped on it.
I ask him to please verify that it was Lippert and not Dexter.

I tried to give the kid at Northwood the VIN# of the 25P so they could check the build sheet but he said it wasn't necessary as the service techs know what they are talking about.

I'm beginning to wonder if anyone knows what they are talking about on either end!!!! :-{}

This is way more difficult than I ever imagined.

On edit..... I was also informed that Northwood is now using AL-KO Kober axles on their trailers. As a matter of fact, he said that AL-KO Kober has a manufacturing facility less than 200 yards from their plant.

Tommie,

I just got off the phone with a Service Rep from Northwood Mfg, who manufacture Arctic Fox, Nash and Desert Fox. I asked the question if they use Lippert axles on any AF TT or 5th Wheels. He said that since 2007 they started using Lippert axles on only the smaller trailers. The larger trailers still use Dexter axle because Dexter does make a better axle, which are all never-lube. He said that his preference is Dexter, however they have had no issues with Lippert, which are USA made. That may surprise some of you. He also said that they make all their own frames and that Lippert frames, which some other manufactures use, are also USA made. Lippert does not make axles and frames in China, he said.

He suggested that if you purchase the 2009 25P to leave the Lippert axles on it and that at some point in time if you should have an issue with the axles to install Dexter. He didn't believe you would ever have an issue with the axles under normal use on that small of a trailer. He also said that if they felt that Lippert axles would be a problem on the smaller lighter trailers, they would never use them.

Tommie, if you have any questions on Arctic Fox, pick up the phone and call them at 1 800-766-6274. Ask for a Service Rep, there easy to talk to.

george

 

[Scottyg1]

As some of you know, I have been looking for a good used travel trailer for about a month now. I found a used Arctic Fox 25R and now a new 2009 Arctic Fox 25P has been located. (same dealer)



Here is the deal... ..... I have read a lot about Dexter being the axle of choice. So I ask the dealer to find out what axles the two AF had on them. As it turns out, the 25R has Dexter and the new 2009 25P has Lippert.



I was completely surprised to hear that the AF had Lippert axles under it.



So... ... ... is Lippert a deal buster on the new 25P???



Now I'm more confused than ever. I didn't think AF would put a Lippert axle under their trailers.



Please advise... ... ..... this deal was almost done!

As the owner of an 06 Heartland Big Horn 3400 with Lippert frame, axles, never again. I've had to replace springs and have frame issues. Just my . 02 For my money this is an area that i will research better next time.

 

[BIGNASTY]

Dexter axle

I asked about wheel bearing on my TT with Dexter 5200 lbs axles. I bought the wheel bearings from Napa auto in town they were German just as someone else had commented on another post. If Dexter is a better axle the bearings that were on the TT axle were 2 China POS 1 Romanian and 1 Taiwan, so if the axles of Dexter are better then the bearings are a POS. And yes Im the only owner so no one has changed them but me. Must be the United Nat. Trailer

 

[Tommie]

Exactly what I am trying to do Scotty. Sorry to hear about your spring and frame issues. At least on the Arctic Fox, they build their own frames and I understand they are very strong. I'm not worried about the frame. I just want to be sure I don't experience premature axle failure.



Thanks for the reply.

As the owner of an 06 Heartland Big Horn 3400 with Lippert frame, axles, never again. I've had to replace springs and have frame issues. Just my . 02 For my money this is an area that i will research better next time.

 

[HBarlow]

As the owner of an 06 Heartland Big Horn 3400 with Lippert frame, axles, never again. I've had to replace springs and have frame issues. Just my . 02 For my money this is an area that i will research better next time.

Thanks, Scotty. That is exactly what I was telling the forum members. The internet has had many, many similar stories reported.

NuWa, Inc. , manufacturer of HitchHiker fifthwheels tried using Lippert frames and running gear on all HH II or HH LS models and some HH Discover America products beginning in late 2006 through, I think, 2008. Many problems were reported and lots of warranty repairs were made. Some owners of those trailers traded them to get away from Lippert components. NuWa returned to using Young's frames and Dexter running gear on all their fifthwheels.

Some of the problems were discussed on the NuWa Owner's Forum and some have been reported and discussed in old TDR threads.

It's the buyers money and his choice. I don't want any Lippert frames or running gear. I learned that NuWa was building some HitchHiker fifthwheels from a good friend of mine who is a TDR member when I was considering purchasing one. I studied the products and compared the bare frames of both Lippert and Young's products and made sure I ordered a trailer built on the Youngs frame with Dexter running gear.

 

[HBarlow]

Im not denying that some products are just CRAP but in the case of the wheel bearing and race failure. That could have happened to any product. Not all the blame is to be dropped on the manufacture. Has the wheel bearing even have been packed with grease, was it loose was it tight ,was it indeed a faulty bearing not the blame of Lippert Or quite possibly that the installer just didn't give a damn that friday and wanted to go couch wrassle with his girl friend or in the case of So Calif his boy friend. Harvey I trust your judgement on ALL things RV but I think even you would have to admit that the wheel bearing failure 50 miles from the RV store would have to be some kind of other problem other than Lippert

Gale,

The bearing failure could have been caused by the ones you mentioned or several others but the fact was it was a Forest River trailer using Lippert supplied frame and running gear. The RV manufacturers buy frames and completely assembled axle/spring assemblies from their suppliers who in that case was Lippert. In many cases the frame manufacturer is very close to the RV manufacturer and the bare frames with running gear are towed to the RV plant as a complete assembly.

 

[Grizzly]

This is a very interesting situation we have going on here. I also called Northwood Mfg. not over 45 minutes ago. I was directed to a young man named Scott, who I believe is a sales guy there. I told him what I was wanting to know and he put me on hold and according to him talked to a service rep about the 2009 25P.



When he came back on the line, he promptly said, " go buy the 2009 because it has Dexter axles under it ". He said that all the 2009 25P units had Dexter axles under them. Go figure... ... !



So I called the dealer back and told him what I had been told. The dealer told me that he had looked under the trailer and saw a tag with LIP stamped on it.

I ask him to please verify that it was Lippert and not Dexter.



I tried to give the kid at Northwood the VIN# of the 25P so they could check the build sheet but he said it wasn't necessary as the service techs know what they are talking about.



I'm beginning to wonder if anyone knows what they are talking about on either end!!!! :-{}



This is way more difficult than I ever imagined.



On edit..... I was also informed that Northwood is now using AL-KO Kober axles on their trailers. As a matter of fact, he said that AL-KO Kober has a manufacturing facility less than 200 yards from their plant.

Tommie,



Call Northwood again and insist that you want to speak to a Service Rep. Don't talk to a salesman, they don't know what they're talking about. Ask them which TT have the Dexter axles on them, then look for that trailer. You'll find the trailer you want, just be patient.



I just took it for granted when I ordered my 08 5er that it would have Dexter running gear under it, and it does.



An added note; did you know that the 2009 25P is a wide body, which is 8. 5' wide. An 8' wide trailer is wide enough. That extra 6" could make a difference when going through construction areas or tight turns.



george