Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) are o rings or fire rings needed?

[RossA]

i am going to go to a silver bullet or sps66 in the next week or so, and i am getting mixed opinoins on if i need to o ring my head or fire ring it? i already have studs and all the stuff in my sig, and will prbably be around 60 to 70 psi, just wanted some input. thanks

 

[Signal73]

seems like anything above 50 is a gamble without rings. its easier to just do it before ya blow it and then gotta clean everything out...

 

[CumminsAholic]

O rings should hold. You're going to need a LOT bigger injector to get to 70 lbs though.

Corey

 

[RossA]

O rings should hold. You're going to need a LOT bigger injector to get to 70 lbs though.

Corey

i agree but with what i have in my sig, plust stacking a TSTcomp on top of that, i should have enough to get to 60 with no problem but correct me if i am wrong.

 

[RossA]

do any of you guys no where i can get my head o ringed near my town? i live in Fresno,CA and the closest place to me is like 20 miles and i dont think they o ring, his name is REB of Browns Diesel, you guys have probably heard of him, he is the one that just had the CR dodge that dynoed like 870 something like 2 or 3 weeks ago.

 

[zstroken]

He will do firerings though. Nothing wrong with fireringing it.

 

[CumminsAholic]

I think your vp will die a very quick death if you stack a powermax comp on top of a edge comp on top of a smarty. I don't think they can handle a duty cycle like that. You'll need some spray, water, injectors or a combination of them to get where you want to go.

Corey

 

[BILLVO]

What is the diff between fire ring and o-ring why would you do both block and head,do you gain a lot? Ive always been curious about this.

 

[RossA]

I think your vp will die a very quick death if you stack a powermax comp on top of a edge comp on top of a smarty. I don't think they can handle a duty cycle like that. You'll need some spray, water, injectors or a combination of them to get where you want to go.

Corey

well i have a HRVP and i have 170hp injectors. i have ran that stack for a while and love it. basically all it is, is a EZ/TST/Smarty stack. i am only using the timing from the DRAG comp and no fueling from it, and i am using the fuel from the TST/ Smarty stack. i have my DRAG in (EZ MODE) no wire taped . i like this stack because i like the DRAGs timing in the upper RPM band rather than the Smartys LOW rpm. so basically i am getting the best of all three worlds, low end fueling from the smarty, top end fueling from the TST, and timing from the DRAG. seems to work GREAT on my truck.

 

[CumminsAholic]

I see. I thought you were using the fueling from both boxes. I've heard it being done, but most have problems.

With an o-ring a small groove is cut right above (on the head), or below (in the block) the fire ring on a stock head gasket and a small piece of wire is put in that sticks down a little bit. Because this wire sticks down (. 015 in?) it pushes down on the head gasket's fire ring and seals it tighter to hold more boost.

On a fire ring job, corresponding cuts are made in the head and block where the stock gasket's fire rings are. The fire rings on the head gasket are water jetted to have the stock fire rings cut out. A piece of wire, way bigger than an o ring wire (10 gauge size?), is then placed in these grooves, eliminating the head gasket fire rings and replacing it with the wire.

That's a basic explanation without getting too far into detail, hopefully it helps out.

Corey

 

[BILLVO]

Corey thanks for the info. How much boost will o-ringing typicaly hold before needing to firering? And when o-ringing is done is it in either the head or block or can it be done to both?

 

[CumminsAholic]

O rings should be good to about 60 - 70lbs. You'll get different opinions from different people. I think o-rings can be done to both (I'm not positive though), but if you're going to go that far you may as well just have it fire ringed. Usually o-rings are done to just the head. If I knew the people I know now I'd have had my head fire ringed, But I don't think I'll ever get over 70 lbs of boost with this truck, at least not when I drive it everyday.

Corey

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Corey's got it down pat.



When they did my fire ring cutting job, (block only) it leaked oil and coolant all over the place even AFTER six retorques.



Bought a new head and had it cut too. Sealed it all right up.



Fire Rings, set up like Corey says, will hold 80 to 100 psi.

 

[Jim Fulmer]

O rings should be good to about 60 - 70 lbs. You'll get different opinions from different people My opinion



I've been and have run a single O-Ring in the head now since the winter of 03'. During that time I have run anywere between 65 and 85 psi, timing at 24+ with Water/Meth (Meth adds timing) and have NEVER had a head gasket issue.



It really comes down to your head being very flat, a good O-Ring job and good maintenance on re-torques, especially in the beginning.



Jim

 

[zstroken]

HOw many times did you retorque your head jim??

 

[Jim Fulmer]

With the 12's I think I did it 6 times in 2 years... . not enough by some standards. With the 14's I've done it 3 times in 1 1/2 years and the last time I gained nothing.



I still have my old head gasket from the stock motor on the wall, it looks like you took a hammer and chisel and made the O-Ring grove. That gasket took allot of crap and never blew.



Jim

 

[Jetpilot]

O rings should be good to about 60 - 70 lbs. You'll get different opinions from different people My opinion



I've been and have run a single O-Ring in the head now since the winter of 03'. During that time I have run anywere between 65 and 85 psi, timing at 24+ with Water/Meth (Meth adds timing) and have NEVER had a head gasket issue.



It really comes down to your head being very flat, a good O-Ring job and good maintenance on re-torques, especially in the beginning.

I am with Jim on this one. O-rings or Fire rings holding has more to do with prep and maintenance than anything.



Doug Smith

 

[RossA]

well looks like i am going to run the silver bullet and i have been talking to Richard Brown aka REB and i think i am goin to wastegate it to 55psi. so i am just giong to get the head o ringed. but i do agree with all of you that the prep work is the most important.