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Are you a socialist? Take the test...
- Thread starter jlccc
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My take on it
While you guys are deciding which side of the fence you're on, let me opine for a moment and if someone agrees or disagrees we can discuss.
Let's say I'm a vendor who makes 4" exhaust systems. Let's further assume that my cost is $250 and the current market price is $425.
Now say I invest in a new piece of machinery that allows me to reduce my cost to $235 apiece. As a vendor, I now have some choices:
A) I can reduce my selling price to $410 to reflect my lower costs and pass along the savings to my customer (which may mean that I get more business from referrals).
B) I can leave my selling price alone and pocket $15 more per system. (To help pay for my new "machine". )
C) Some combination of A & B.
Now imagine that you are a customer in search of an exhaust system. Somehow you know that I recently invested in machine to reduce my production costs. Do you have the right to tell me I must choose option A? (A socialist point of view in my opinion) Or do I have the right to make my own decision and you can vote with your wallet? (Either buy it or don't; which is the capitalist point of view, again in my opinion. )
Eventually of course, other exhaust manufacturers will invest in similar equipment and competitive pressures will eventually force me to reduce my price or lose business. But again, that's MY CHOICE as the vendor. YOUR CHOICE as the potential customer is either to buy or not buy, but not to tell me how to run my business.
In the above example the "machine" allows me to exercise a competitive advantage over my competitors. Other vendors may reduce cost by using thinner gauge material, say 16 gauge tubing instead of 14 gauge. Or maybe they don't supply a "mandrel bent" system.
Again, these are marketing points that the wise vendor will point out to potential customers. And isn't this what synthetic oil companies do? If you believe it, and you believe the benefits are there, you buy the product. If you don't believe it, don't buy it. But don't go to the vendor and tell them their product costs too much and they should reduce the price.
While you guys are deciding which side of the fence you're on, let me opine for a moment and if someone agrees or disagrees we can discuss.
Let's say I'm a vendor who makes 4" exhaust systems. Let's further assume that my cost is $250 and the current market price is $425.
Now say I invest in a new piece of machinery that allows me to reduce my cost to $235 apiece. As a vendor, I now have some choices:
A) I can reduce my selling price to $410 to reflect my lower costs and pass along the savings to my customer (which may mean that I get more business from referrals).
B) I can leave my selling price alone and pocket $15 more per system. (To help pay for my new "machine". )
C) Some combination of A & B.
Now imagine that you are a customer in search of an exhaust system. Somehow you know that I recently invested in machine to reduce my production costs. Do you have the right to tell me I must choose option A? (A socialist point of view in my opinion) Or do I have the right to make my own decision and you can vote with your wallet? (Either buy it or don't; which is the capitalist point of view, again in my opinion. )
Eventually of course, other exhaust manufacturers will invest in similar equipment and competitive pressures will eventually force me to reduce my price or lose business. But again, that's MY CHOICE as the vendor. YOUR CHOICE as the potential customer is either to buy or not buy, but not to tell me how to run my business.
In the above example the "machine" allows me to exercise a competitive advantage over my competitors. Other vendors may reduce cost by using thinner gauge material, say 16 gauge tubing instead of 14 gauge. Or maybe they don't supply a "mandrel bent" system.
Again, these are marketing points that the wise vendor will point out to potential customers. And isn't this what synthetic oil companies do? If you believe it, and you believe the benefits are there, you buy the product. If you don't believe it, don't buy it. But don't go to the vendor and tell them their product costs too much and they should reduce the price.
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I love Capitalism!
I probably would go with choice 'c' so I can get the capital investment paid off, and use my lower price to sell more.
if you can undercut the competition and still make money... . and keep a quality product the people will still want to purchace... ... . GO FOT IT!
if you lower the price... . you can make up the difference in volume as long as your suppliers co-operate
I probably would go with choice 'c' so I can get the capital investment paid off, and use my lower price to sell more.
if you can undercut the competition and still make money... . and keep a quality product the people will still want to purchace... ... . GO FOT IT!
if you lower the price... . you can make up the difference in volume as long as your suppliers co-operate
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BOMBs like exhaust systems can be considered Luxury items and fall under discressionary spending... . if the customer has the money, but does not think the gains are worth the expence... . he may go elsewhere, or build his own... .....
Capitalism and the steel industry
Now let me throw a wrench into the works. How do you feel about cheap foreign steel finding its way into the U. S. ? Obviously the Koreans (or the Chinese or whoever) have a competitive advantage over the U. S. due to their cheaper production costs. They can then undercut the U. S. steel industry. A steel mill in my local area shut down this year because of foreign competition.
How deep is your commitment to capitalism now? Is it still as firm as it was? Or is it stronger than ever? That's what I want people to consider. Capitalism (like any other ism) isn't without its consequences.
Did you know that Pres. Bush recently approved import tariffs on foreign steel? Do you realize that as a result every steel product you buy (automobiles, appliances, etc) will cost more than it would have if the steel had come from the "open market" rather than being built from "tariffed" steel?
Personally I agree with the tariffs, but not because I'm against capitalism. Rather I believe that the steel industry is important to our national defense and should be subsidized (which is what a tariff really is) for that reason.
Now let me throw a wrench into the works. How do you feel about cheap foreign steel finding its way into the U. S. ? Obviously the Koreans (or the Chinese or whoever) have a competitive advantage over the U. S. due to their cheaper production costs. They can then undercut the U. S. steel industry. A steel mill in my local area shut down this year because of foreign competition.
How deep is your commitment to capitalism now? Is it still as firm as it was? Or is it stronger than ever? That's what I want people to consider. Capitalism (like any other ism) isn't without its consequences.
Did you know that Pres. Bush recently approved import tariffs on foreign steel? Do you realize that as a result every steel product you buy (automobiles, appliances, etc) will cost more than it would have if the steel had come from the "open market" rather than being built from "tariffed" steel?
Personally I agree with the tariffs, but not because I'm against capitalism. Rather I believe that the steel industry is important to our national defense and should be subsidized (which is what a tariff really is) for that reason.
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yes I still believe in capitalism.....
In run a motorcycle shop and have found that if you give a customer a choice of lower price or higher price they almost always want lower. Alot realize lower cost usually also means "cheap". Whenever asked the differance I ask them 'Do you want made in America or someplace else?' Most people go with the quality. 
I'm a union member and a capitalist. Before you explode, here's the skinny. The price of a product has absolutely nothing to do the the cost of manufacturing that product. It has everything to do with what the customer is willing to pay for the product. If I can make plastic turds for $. 04 each and sell them for $10. 00 each, that's great! People are willing to pay $10. 00 for a turd. If the chinese start importing turds that cost them $. 01 each to make that doesn't mean they'll cost $2. 50 each. They'll still cost $10. 00 each because that's what people will pay for a turd. If for some reason the cost to make a turd rises to $4. 00 each, the price will not necessarily rise to $14. 00. If it does and people aren't willing to pay $14. 00 for a turd, the turd manufacturer makes nothing and is also out the cost of manufacturing.
On the same note, I turd maker sells his labor to the manufacturer for a price he thinks his labor is worth. He's a ***** like the rest of us to our employer or customers. He'll ultimately get what the company heads are willing to pay for his labor. By his self he might or might not be able to reach that level. Through collective bargaining he and his fellow turd makers can reach that level alot easier than trying to go it alone. If the turdmaker's union demands more than the turdheads are willing to pay, the turdheads might fold the business or move to a non union location were they can exploit uneducated people for their labor. But the price of a turd is still $10. 00 because that's what uneducated people are willing to pay for a turd. This is Capitalism. We all want the most capital for our product whether it's a comodity or our labor. The business heads want cheap labor and the working man wants cheap products. But it all comes down to one thing. We all want more for less. We're all greedy. And we all think we have less because someone else has more. This is human nature from the mop slinger to the CEO.
Aw for crying out loud. Hoer was bleeped out. Boo hoo. a dirty word. :{
On the same note, I turd maker sells his labor to the manufacturer for a price he thinks his labor is worth. He's a ***** like the rest of us to our employer or customers. He'll ultimately get what the company heads are willing to pay for his labor. By his self he might or might not be able to reach that level. Through collective bargaining he and his fellow turd makers can reach that level alot easier than trying to go it alone. If the turdmaker's union demands more than the turdheads are willing to pay, the turdheads might fold the business or move to a non union location were they can exploit uneducated people for their labor. But the price of a turd is still $10. 00 because that's what uneducated people are willing to pay for a turd. This is Capitalism. We all want the most capital for our product whether it's a comodity or our labor. The business heads want cheap labor and the working man wants cheap products. But it all comes down to one thing. We all want more for less. We're all greedy. And we all think we have less because someone else has more. This is human nature from the mop slinger to the CEO.
Aw for crying out loud. Hoer was bleeped out. Boo hoo. a dirty word. :{
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Love it.
Love the Turd scenario. American steel is not the only ones hurt by cheaply made overseas product. We have lost almost all our manufacturing to overseas. This is the tragedy of a world based economy and corp greed. Now it is time for world based trade Unions! The only problem none of them have the cohones to go overseas and take on corrupt goverment and company paid goons with guns.
Quality is not always found in US made products anymore (even if we all support them). Most so called American made vehicles have parts from all over the globe in them. And outsourcing seems to be the name of the game today. I do not look at the price, as much as the product anymore. I try to buy from local stores to support my community.
We are all socialist to a degree. We earn our money and share it with our family and friends. We then give it to our goverment to support it. I would not bo so proud of being a capitalist.
Love the Turd scenario. American steel is not the only ones hurt by cheaply made overseas product. We have lost almost all our manufacturing to overseas. This is the tragedy of a world based economy and corp greed. Now it is time for world based trade Unions! The only problem none of them have the cohones to go overseas and take on corrupt goverment and company paid goons with guns.
Quality is not always found in US made products anymore (even if we all support them). Most so called American made vehicles have parts from all over the globe in them. And outsourcing seems to be the name of the game today. I do not look at the price, as much as the product anymore. I try to buy from local stores to support my community.
We are all socialist to a degree. We earn our money and share it with our family and friends. We then give it to our goverment to support it. I would not bo so proud of being a capitalist.
Most consumers know the price of everything, and the value of darn near nothing.
For some - Little dollars rule - so does little sense.
I believe in capitalism. The alternatives suck!!!!!!!!!
Redneck Toadstomper
For some - Little dollars rule - so does little sense.
I believe in capitalism. The alternatives suck!!!!!!!!!
Redneck Toadstomper
Remember when our products were among the best quality in the world? Everyone wanted it. Our cars were good, tools were good, electronics kicked "a".
We didnt need tariffs, which dont solve the underlying reason why we cant sell our product.
What happened? Its called lower the value, lose the sale. Now we import almost everything. Why, cause things are cheaper to SHIP across the world to here.
Why? because of forced wage increases, & you cant do anything without some environmental impact study.
We need to make products that compete, or its just a matter of time, and we'll be out of business. .
It also needs to be part of our culture to NOT buy something if we dont agree w/ the price, or the way its marketed. For example, movies & their content. If we dont want the violence in the movies - refuse to pay for it - period. Theres no need to continue all the bickering & pass laws. just dont buy it. Dont like chinese tennis shoes? Dont like how Bill Gates packages HIS product. . Dont Buy Them! Find another source. Drill your own oil!! Start selling an alternative, and make your own fortune. Thats the power of freedom.
This should be AUTOMATIC in our culture, its obviously not.
Whats the saying? Make a building permit as easy to get as welfare, and the economy will pick-up overnight.
We didnt need tariffs, which dont solve the underlying reason why we cant sell our product.
What happened? Its called lower the value, lose the sale. Now we import almost everything. Why, cause things are cheaper to SHIP across the world to here.
Why? because of forced wage increases, & you cant do anything without some environmental impact study.
We need to make products that compete, or its just a matter of time, and we'll be out of business. .
It also needs to be part of our culture to NOT buy something if we dont agree w/ the price, or the way its marketed. For example, movies & their content. If we dont want the violence in the movies - refuse to pay for it - period. Theres no need to continue all the bickering & pass laws. just dont buy it. Dont like chinese tennis shoes? Dont like how Bill Gates packages HIS product. . Dont Buy Them! Find another source. Drill your own oil!! Start selling an alternative, and make your own fortune. Thats the power of freedom.
This should be AUTOMATIC in our culture, its obviously not.
Whats the saying? Make a building permit as easy to get as welfare, and the economy will pick-up overnight.
I will tend to purchase the cheaper (less costly) turd PROVIDING the quality is the same, you will not find Taiwan junk in my garage! Drop the quality, drop the price. Drop the cost while retaining the quality, you can and are making $$$$.
Now, we get into the marketing part of it all..... my helper at work has a variety of tools, including the above refferenced junk, some of which are "copies" (appearance) of U. S. made tools. Yup, CHROME PLATED TURDS!
LET THE BUYER BEWARE!
I got a PET ROCK... . anybody want to bite.
Mike
Now, we get into the marketing part of it all..... my helper at work has a variety of tools, including the above refferenced junk, some of which are "copies" (appearance) of U. S. made tools. Yup, CHROME PLATED TURDS!
LET THE BUYER BEWARE!
I got a PET ROCK... . anybody want to bite.
Mike
working part-time in an electronics store, i can see that when our cost on a tv or dvd player or something goes down, we sell it a bit cheaper too. lowering the selling price drives more product out. more turnaround without more work means more money for the company. that is just how i see it. . i voted for the 1st choice. .
jlcc, I get the impression that many, (18%) feel there is a grey area... I do. This is due to the fact that quality was not clearly addressed. IMO.
I will "vote with my wallet" as most will BUT if the less expensive product is junk they can let it sit on their shelf till the cows come home. More costly but clearly a superior product you will find me first in that line. What would you consider me?
I worked with a guy who wore "brand X" work boots and would give me a ear full over the fact that my work boots were 250 while his were 35 at K-Mart... . went like this "how long do those 35 dollar boots last ya Carlos?" "I get about three or four months otta them", "how 'bout yours, Mike?" "These are goin on three years and have had new soles twice, their about worn". "Wow"! I buy the ones made in Minnesota.
Mike
I will "vote with my wallet" as most will BUT if the less expensive product is junk they can let it sit on their shelf till the cows come home. More costly but clearly a superior product you will find me first in that line. What would you consider me?
I worked with a guy who wore "brand X" work boots and would give me a ear full over the fact that my work boots were 250 while his were 35 at K-Mart... . went like this "how long do those 35 dollar boots last ya Carlos?" "I get about three or four months otta them", "how 'bout yours, Mike?" "These are goin on three years and have had new soles twice, their about worn". "Wow"! I buy the ones made in Minnesota.
Mike
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