2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission At the Mercy of Electronic Quirks

[krs]

The '01 air conditioning quit. It worked yesterday, but won't today. The clutch isn't energized. While going through the diagnosis procedures I get repeated references to the control circuits which on this truck are a bunch of boxes in addition to the well known ECU and PCU. Each module takes inputs from a variety of sensors in order to decide what will work, how and when or if, and it's all interdependent. We're going to a dealer tomorrow for the first time with 19,000 left on the basic warranty. I hate the prospect.



It came to me that it's really impossible to repair all that much on these trucks without easy access to free (no cost) modules to plug in and try. Without that, I'm left to trying to be sure that one is bad and buying it without return rights. Most of them cost quite a bit.



We're completely at the mercy of the electronics in the trucks.



So my question is: what would it take to eliminate all of the control modules and run the truck like all vehicles used to be run - with independent circuits for each accessory and operation? I like the truck. I like it's engine, trans, interior, looks. Every time I get in I enjoy the smell of the leather and when I start it the sound is music to my ears. Can't I take out the bad stuff - use an earlier wire harness maybe? Make it so that when I turn the key all that happens is the starter turns? So that when I switch on the air it's only me that decides whether it'll work instead of some obscure controller?

 

[Blakers]

Everytime you have a major electrical component failure, wire it direct through its own switch. Eventually everything will be independent of the computer just like the old stuff. For the engine, you'll probably have to get a 12 valve setup.

 

[parcher]

Your truck will also get heavier. On the latest version of the Chrysler mini-van there is a box called a "forward control module" it electronically controlls power to various sources. It saves 38 POUNDS of copper wire from the vehicle. If you have the service manual there are procedures to diognose your vehicle without swapping parts.

 

[krs]

parcher, I do have the service manual(s) and a drb II scanner. Ultimately they will simply point to the relevant controller in many instances. That would be fine except that some conditions list a continuing series of tests if the controller has not effected an repair. The possibilities are listed in order of likelihood for the air conditioning, to use this example, and apparently the controller is more likely the fault then is the switch module.



I'm sure that the DC scanner gives a closer look. For most people that ties us to the dealers which is the circumstance that I find uncomfortable.

 

[Rman]

technology has a price to pay, and thats simplicity. Believe me you don't want vehicle going back to the old days. New vehicles really aren't that complicated, its just electronics that scares most people.



Digital electronics is simply a series of highs and lows, when some of those highs and lows aren't present things act weird. Sometimes isolating problems can be difficult, but for the most part, with proper tools modern systems troubleshoot themselves.



You can switch back to point distributors and carb's... i'll take modern engines any day. I guess my opinion is slighted being a software engineer for automated electronic test equipment. I chase sparks all day, then make the computer chase them for me with software changes.

 

[krs]

I wouldn't mind if they'd have kept to an engine controller for engine functions, a powertrain for powertrain. The requirements of emmision regulators have to be met after all. But when secondary controllers which operate accessories collect engine related signals that are routed through other controllers and made interdependent then I think that they are over-engineering at our expense. No matter how inexpensive the electronic pieces are to make they'll always charge you an me a heck of a lot more than the priciest set of points and condenser for them.



In this case though it's all moot. They called late yesterday to tell me that the condensor had leaked as a result of road damage and was thus not warrantable. Something had hit and punctured the piece of line that's integral with the cooler. Nice shot. I'm not going to try to argue that point. Said it was $325. for the part and $275. for labor. so I told them not to fix it. The part at an online dealer in Georgia is $225. but I'm wanting to look and see if I can solder the line before buying one.

 

[Rman]

Originally posted by KRS

I wouldn't mind if they'd have kept to an engine controller for engine functions, a powertrain for powertrain. The requirements of emmision regulators have to be met after all. But when secondary controllers which operate accessories collect engine related signals that are routed through other controllers and made interdependent then I think that they are over-engineering at our expense. No matter how inexpensive the electronic pieces are to make they'll always charge you an me a heck of a lot more than the priciest set of points and condenser for them.



In this case though it's all moot. They called late yesterday to tell me that the condensor had leaked as a result of road damage and was thus not warrantable. Something had hit and punctured the piece of line that's integral with the cooler. Nice shot. I'm not going to try to argue that point. Said it was $325. for the part and $275. for labor. so I told them not to fix it. The part at an online dealer in Georgia is $225. but I'm wanting to look and see if I can solder the line before buying one.

good choice, sounds like they're hosin ya.



As far as the over engineering goes, its all about money. If they can cut wires and boxes out of the equation by merging them with other systems, they're gona do it. Less build time and less install time, cheaper parts and less for them. That relates to more for us, and well we all know how much they care about "us". Life is all about playing the hand your dealt, in this case you got dealt a pretty crappy hand. Good luck finding parts!