atf synthetic as fuel

[LarryWard]

There is very convincing experience on this forum that filtered used atf is fine as a percentage with diesel. Is there any reason used filtered synthetics would differ for this fuel blending with diesel? Will it burn just as well? In reality any bulk used atf I get will include some syn, right?



Beyond that I need to decide whether to use synthetic in my rebuilt transmission.

And will it help fuel milage? I should check on archives to review all the views and best brands and prices. transmission may be installed Thursday.

 

[WKruger]

Well atf will help w/ lubricity, which is a must w/ ULSD. I don't believe it will make any difference if it's syn. or dino. As far as the transmission, ATF+4 is synthetic.

 

[Cattletrkr]

Ask the guys who have the oil burner furnaces. A lot of synth oil won't burn or doesn't burn as good. Might be OK for lubricity, but it could also gunk things up pretty good too.

 

[2broke2smoke]

it's formulated to resist high temps ...



if i was gonna run anything it would be some syn 2 stroke ... formulated to combust completely

 

[GDMRTN]

Synthetic does burn a little harder. But not that much that you'll notice when the engine is warmed up. 1 quart of synthetic gear oil in 34 gallon of fuel will let a trail of blue smoke but atf has never been a problem for me.

 

[Bob4x4]

Atf red is the same dye as off road diesel. If they stick your tank telling them it is atf will not fly... ... ... ...



Bob

 

[TomThomas]

Larry, what are your plans? do you have access to used ATF to use as a fuel? I've "heard" of people running as much as 50% atf/dino w/no problems.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

My '01 HO burned used motor oil great, but a couple quarts of Amsoil would make it trail blue even with a totally hot engine on a hot summer day, so ever since I decided it wasn't worth it. IMO if it's a good synthetic don't burn it, or you're going to be asking for a lot of deposits on your injector tips & rings.

 

[MMeier]

Atf red is the same dye as off road diesel. If they stick your tank telling them it is atf will not fly... ... ... ...



Bob

No it's not! Been covered here before.

 

[Bob4x4]

I ran a fleet for 8. 5 years. I saw many truckers busted by commercial enforcement. Trust me when I tell you it won't fly :-laf



Bob

 

[WrenchRat]

Bob,

I am interested in your fleet input on the red dye issue. If a little frustration with this issue seeps out, sorry. I am NOT wanting to argue. Just some insight.



So, along those same lines, if I use Marvel Mystery Oil as a lube additive to combat USLD, the red dye is basis for getting busted? MMO would not be my first choice, I just use it as an example.



With the increasingly known/understood lack of lubricity with the USLD (max sulfur 15ppm) folks will be trying almost anything to save their fuel systems. VP44 owners will likely be at the head of the list in trying 'anything'. I've already had one fail 6+ months into USLD, but I can't tie it directly to ULSD. USLD may have taken it to failure quicker, but in this case, I don't believe it was the cause, just another VP44 puking.



To combat ULSD, I try to fill up with B2 or better with some frequency and add Power Service at fillups. The Spicer Lubricity Test noted on this forum confirmed that bio-diesel has good lubricity qualities as compared to other additives.



Or if I get in a jam up north and have to dump in some K1 (now dyed) to cut gelling, what then? If road D1 is available, certainly, I'll use that. But in some places it's just D2 Blend that's available. I carry a gallon of Power Service 911 in the winter, and use anti-gel during any cold weather. In the five years I've had the '99 I have not had a problem. But if that's not enough or I use it or give it to someone else, I'll use whatever I can find to get it running. In the old days, we just mixed K1 and D2 about 50/50 to avoid gelling in GM diesels. Worked well below zero.



Also, if I pick up a load of red dye in my transfer tank, empty it in off-road tanks/equipment and refill with tax fuel, the trace of red dye could bust me? We all know that there are usually several gallons of fuel left in a transfer tank when the pump starts squawking.



I am not interested in trying to 'skirt' the road tax fuel in my truck, but there is no sense in paying road tax for my other equipment and especially now with ULSD in road fuel and LSD in red fuel, I prefer to use the red fuel in my off road equipment, at least until it's all USLD.



Also, recall that Prez Bush allowed the use of Red dye fuel across the nation post Katrina due to supply problems. How does someone differentiate between leftover red dye mix and current fuel in a farm tank used for road fuel? Given that this was a while ago, obviously usage would be somewhat low out of a remote tank, but it is possible.



I am NOT wanting to argue here. It's goobermint that's the problem. I am a non-commercial type just trying to get a handle on this. As I don't have direct experience with the diesel cops, someone who is 'in the know' would be helpful.



Thanks

 

[MMeier]

I ran a fleet for 8. 5 years. I saw many truckers busted by commercial enforcement. Trust me when I tell you it won't fly :-laf



Bob

How'd they test, just dip and look at their tube, or did they run an actual spectrometer test on the stuff?

 

[Bob4x4]

How'd they test, just dip and look at their tube, or did they run an actual spectrometer test on the stuff?

Back then if it was red you were busted,end of story. They would bust the dirt haulers left and right. The least cared for trucks and the highest risk as well being around the earth movers etc.



Bob

 

[RStankevitz]

i was under the impression here they have a way to check that it is red dye not something else also can test for the dillution of it i have asked this question as we have offroad skid tanks and when we service the dumptrucks we use the offroad to fill the filters i was told that it wont be strong enough in the tank they wouldnt bother that?

 

[MMeier]

i was under the impression here they have a way to check that it is red dye not something else also can test for the dillution of it i have asked this question as we have offroad skid tanks and when we service the dumptrucks we use the offroad to fill the filters i was told that it wont be strong enough in the tank they wouldnt bother that?

More food for thought... . sometimes "I hear" that they will pull filters to inspect them, and the dye hangs out in a filter for a really long time. And the spectrometer test I was referring to above is what they use to determine if it is actual dye or not.

 

[PToombs]

I put in 3/4 of a tank of red fuel. 2 tanks later I drained some out of the filter, there was no red, all greenish yellow.

Believe what you will.



I wouldn't run atf, to many extra chemicals, friction modifiers and such in it. Don't we have enough problems with our pumps?

 

[MMeier]

Cut that filter open and do the aforementioned test on it and see what you find.

 

[PToombs]

I'll do that when I do my cab swap. I was going to change it anyway.

 

[Champane Flight]

Dyes, atf and bullcrap...

ATF is not a good idea in your diesel period. It has high detergent values, heat dipersants, and a tendency to gum up pumps. Dye in fuel will show unless many tanks have been run and filters changed to clear it out. They do use a spectrograph sometimes to analyze the dye content, the dye used in fuels is not the same as ATF, and amounts of dye injected in fuel batches are precise at time of loading at terminal. Any amount of dye will bring a fine, many IRS agents do not care if dye is from ATF, or off highway diesel, the fine will come. You can argue or take them to court, but in most cases you will lose.