ATS or DTT converter?

[rrausch]

Well Fred, according to my VIN, my truck WAS made in America.



Also, I run my truck 90% of the time at Sea Level and my ATS runs just great. It also runs great at 7,000 feet when I am in New Mexico. That's ONE of the things I mean when I say ATS has done the most thorough job of engineering of all the Perf. Trans builders.



If we don't buy American and support American jobs who will? The Chinese?

Gimme a break yourself! Our Balance of Trade is the worst in World history. We are sending Billions of Dollars every month out of the country in order to give China, Mexico, etc. etc. a better economy. And what are the Chinese doing with all this money? Building up the People's Liberation Army and their Navy. Gee I wonder why they are doing that? As far as sending our hard earned dollars out of the country to buy foreign goods I am against it unless there is no alternative. For me I'll buy 100% American when I can.



I believe you are a DTT installer aren't you?



Then you should know ATS uses a redesigned stator. They take a stock one and go at it with a 4-axis CNC machine and machine the convex and concave sides of each stator blade so that it looks like a spoon instead of a fat wedge. This is expensive, time consuming but gives GREAT off-the-line performance.



ATS has raised the bar in Performance Transmission world and so far no one else has come close.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

Let me again remind everyone to keep in mind and follow the guidelines as they pertain to automatic transmission threads - https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=72098 . Specifically in this case:

The only solution I can come up with to stop this is to institute a rule that when it comes to automatic transmissions if a post is started about ATS trannies ONLY those with ATS trannies or stock can post to it. If a post is started about DTT trannies then ONLY those with DTT trannies or stock can post to it. Likewise with BD, Suncoast, Goerend, or others. I find it sad that it has to come to this but I don't see any other workable option based on the track record. These battles have been hashed out over and over again and nothing has come out of them other than people being ****** off and driving users away from the site. From here on out we will be deleting posts based on this policy. If you see a post that falls under this policy DO NOT fire back at that person - simply report the post and it will be taken care of.



If a post is asking a general transmission question you can post how your transmission modification works - but DON'T discuss the other side AT ALL. Posts WILL be deleted with no notice that do not meet this standard.

-Steve St. Laurent

Lead Moderator

 

[Matt400]

Hey Steve,

Thanks for tossing a little water on the fire.

I really had no idea where my thread would go. I don't mind the sparing but do understand where it could go if you let it.



It sure would be great if TDR could post a comparison page of just the technical data supplied by the Transmission Builders.

Basic data only for us newbies that post questions like mine. That way users could just point a newbie to the link.



Builders could send in updates to specific models for everyone to see.



Kind of like this simple constructed Satellite Radio Chart

 

[Edward]

ATS has produced a triple lock-up disc torque converter for quite a few years now. Other good after market vendors have since developed and produced their versions of the triple lock-up converters also. Due to the sight rules I am not able to mention those companies by name. If you want to know about them send me a PM and I will be happy to give you a link to their sights. I can mention the following company name because they are not an aftermarket transmission vendor. This last fall Mercedes Benz introduced a triple lock-up disc converter for their new 7-G transmission. Mercedes doesn’t make any junk and they only use what has proven to work and work well. Personally I like the idea that I have been using something on my truck for over a year that Mercedes customers are just now beginning to enjoy. I am extremely happy with my ATS stage V transmission and torque converter. I highly recommend ATS. Give Clint a call he’s great guy.



Edward.

 

[rrausch]

That is amazing Edward. But it reinforces what I have been saying for a couple of years now---ATS has done the best job of engineering of all the Performance transmission guys. Clint out-did Mercedes Benz and beat them to the marketplace by 3 years to boot!

 

[JR2]

I have a DTT in my 01 and love it. It has taken all the abuse I could give it and is begging for more. I did reseach which transmission to use and ATS was not selling transmission upgrades at the time, DTT was.



I truly beleive that DTT has raised the bar in Performance Transmission world and so far no one else has come close.

 

[c-hawk]

DTT for me. i've been hard on mine, towing heavy, drag racing, stop and go traffic, etc. It's been great.



Seems to me both DTT and ATS have tc lock up figured out, even though they go about it in different ways. I know there are a lot of very high hp trucks running DTT trannys and not slipping lock up. So either lock up system will hold anything you can throw at it.



That being said, an automatic transmission can not spend it's entire life in lock up. So in my opinion, if either lock up system is stronger than i need, i want the one that has better fluid coupling for when i can't be in lock up. Like getting a load moving, pulling the boat up the ramp, or coming off the line at the drag strip. That's why i chose DTT.



I am glad there are choices out there though. Makes it better for all of us.



Later,

Chris

 

[Matt400]

Originally posted by c-hawk

So in my opinion, if either lock up system is stronger than i need, i want the one that has better fluid coupling for when i can't be in lock up. Like getting a load moving, pulling the boat up the ramp, or coming off the line at the drag strip. That's why i chose DTT.

Hey Chris,

Interesting opinion, I know site rules won't allow for for you to comment on "why" you think its better over the ATS for your uses but maybe you could comment on what makes your DTT converter such a great performer in the un-lock mode?



With the HP numbers in your sig its no wonder your a happy camper!

 

[c-hawk]

I'll shoot you a PM telling you why i'm "happy" with my DTT. I have no problems sharing my OPINION here, but I don't want to cross any lines, and i'm not 100% sure where the lines are, so i guess i'm best to answer you with a PM. It's a shame it needs to be this way. Or maybe if i was a little smarter i would know what i can and can't say. Oh well.



Chris

 

[Matt400]

Originally posted by c-hawk

I'll shoot you a PM telling you why i'm "happy" with my DTT. I have no problems sharing my OPINION here, but I don't want to cross any lines, and i'm not 100% sure where the lines are, so i guess i'm best to answer you with a PM. It's a shame it needs to be this way. Or maybe if i was a little smarter i would know what i can and can't say. Oh well.



Chris

A PM would be great Chris... . I believe what Steve posted means you just can't say anything about "another" brand if you don't own it. Exception being if you have a stock truck which means you can say what ever you like (within reason) as far as I know.

 

[KKlepfer]

rrausch "Well Fred, according to my VIN, my truck WAS made in America"





Do you really believe your Cummins was completly built in USA? Go to there website and you'll see that they have been building outside the US for quite some time now. All engine manufacturers have to do it to stay competitive.



http://www.cummins.com/na/pages/en/whoweare/generalcompanyinfo/cumminshistory.cfm



"Cummins looked beyond American borders to establish manufacturing facilities. The first of these was opened at Shotts, Scotland, in 1956. In the early 1960s, Cummins built plants or licensed foreign producers elsewhere in Europe and in Brazil, Australia, India, Mexico, and Japan. "



"Cummins, like many leading U. S. industrials, confronted intense global competition in the 1980s. In response to this challenge and others, the company launched a massive restructuring program and began investing $1. 3 billion in new plant and equipment and new engine designs. "



"In the early 1990s, this international effort moved ahead with major manufacturing ventures in Japan, China, and India. "

 

[rrausch]

Well KKLepfer, according to the first digit of my VIN (1) my 2500 was built in the "U. S. A. "

According to the 11th digit of my VIN (S) my 2500 was assembled at "Dodge City (Warren Plant)"



Made in U. S. A. ! That's good enough for me.

And yes, I like to keep my truck that way.

No foreign made stuff for me if I can help it.

We DO have still a choice about most parts for our trucks.

 

[rrausch]

Another thing KKlepfer... I'll bet my Cummins was built at Cummins Mid-range Engine plant in Columbus, Indiana too! Note this press release from Cummins says right up front that "The primary customer of CMEP is DaimlerChrylser".



What follows is from the Cummins Diesel News. Read it here: http://www.off-road.com/dodge/news/2002_09/cummins_anniversary/



COLUMBUS, Ind. -- Today Cummins Inc. (NYSE:CUM - News) kicked off the celebration of the 10th anniversary of the opening of the Columbus Midrange Engine Plant (CMEP) in Columbus, Indiana. The four-day event, which starts today and concludes Saturday, August 17, celebrates the success of the Midrange engine plant and its accomplishments over the last decade.



The 650 employee, 588,000 square-foot plant produces six cylinder diesel engines for a variety of bus, truck and RV manufacturers. CMEP manufactures over 100,000 engines a year and has produced more than 800,000 engines since the introduction of the B series engine at CMEP in 1992. The primary customer of CMEP is DaimlerChrysler, which uses the engines in Dodge Ram pickup trucks. The Cummins Turbo Diesel and the Dodge Ram have enjoyed tremendous success with this combination. _

 

[KKlepfer]

Taking your simplistic logic as truth... I would bet the farm that the parts that make up your engine as a complete engine didn't orginate in the U. S. That's not even taking into account the rest of the vehicle. If all those parts that are manufactered elsewhere are put together in a U. S. city makes you feel better then I totally misunderstood your original post. My '03 was assembled in Mexico... just a fact of life. Don't get me wrong I hate to see manufacturing going overseas too. But even Wallmart had to admit that some of their "Made in USA" merchandise wasn't. I don't want to bum you out any more so I'll accept your reasoning as truth, and purchase a DTT.

 

[GFrance]

I just got back from a 1000 mile round trip to B. C. I got the full dtt upgrade with smart contoller and i'm just Oo. Oo. Oo. off the walls as to how much better my truck pulls my 12,000 lb 5vr. I did like you matt 400 research research research. I would pm you but I'm sure my views would echo c-hawk's



Glenn

 

[KKlepfer]

Thanks for your input GFrance. I really appreciate your emphasis on research. If I had the $ now I probably would have made a big mistake in upgrading my 48RE. Luckily my pocket book gave me enough time to research at least three builders so far and am convince fluid coupling is the best way to go. Congrads on your transmission... I'm a little jealous.

 

[rrausch]

Posted by KKlepfer, "My '03 was assembled in Mexico... just a fact of life. Don't get me wrong... "



It's thinking like this that inch by inch, dollar by dollar has knocked the American Working Man off his feet, and has just about destroyed the Greatest Manufacturing Economy the world has ever known. Yeah, I was raised blue collar and I'm proud of it. I work with my hands and I'm proud of that too. And yes I have an ok net worth.



When the eulogy is written for America it won't be the American Working Man who has betrayed his country, it will be the cumulative effects of just a few decades of this sort of "stinkin' thinkin'". Just a fact of life huh...



Go ahead, ship all the Dollars you want out of the Country. I don't care for myself. I did my time protecting my country in 1970-71. But my Nephews... I care very much for the America they are inheriting. When they come of fighting age I am afraid we will face a very well financed People's Liberation Army and possess a poorer U. S. Armed forces as we slowly go broke. Just a fact of life I guess!

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

If you guys want to argue whether to buy american/not buy american/what is buying american/etc please take it to the other forum and start a thread on that. That way people that aren't interested in it and are only interested in transmission information (which is what the thread was started for) have that option. transmission threads are heated enough to not need to pull politics into them.



-Steve St. Laurent

Lead Moderator

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

Since I don't have lock-up I'll contribute to the fluid coupling issue.

I have had my DTT system for roughly 18 months now... .

I did some research as well...

I looked at the common name aftermarket brands pretty carefully too... .

I can't say anything bad based on my personal experience but I can say that the choice I made was spot on for me.

Since these units are based on an application specific design, each system will perform based on useage needs.

Once the fine tuning was done, I could not believe how much HP and $$ I was leaving "on the table" so to speak.

I have absolutely zero problems to date. I HAVE had some tweaking done to achieve the result *I* personally wanted from it and it was done with a smile and a free lunch to boot... .

So after having the product in place for a year and a half, I would do it again tomorrow, if I were faced with the same needs, including a second gen with lock-up if it came to that.



While this may seem a bit "general" in nature I have seen an increase of roughly 1 - 1. 5 mpg. An increase in top end by no less than 30 - 40 mph at WOT and got there much quicker to.

Great driveability around town and yet when you "get on it" the thing hooks up and hauls butt... Keep in mind I have not lock-up so the performance has to be decent in fluid couple to achieve comparable results... it does this very well.

I have had no leaks due to line pressures. No sign of oil breakdown (although visual and nose testing is not imperical data) or contamination, nor have I seen burnt oil which allegedly results from heat build up due to tighter tolerances/higher pressures.

I had rougly 230 RWHP when I did the install, and I now have roughly 360 RWHP (on my winter settings) and it still hooks up and hauls me ahead of most all the other major truck makers with ease... and alot of wide eyeballs and open mouths... gotta like that... .

Well, that's my experience and, my personal opinion based on useage.



So I'd say, in all honesty, that you can do your research and make the call for your needs. You'd be ill advised NOT TO...

The cream rises to the top as they say and I'm very please with my results.



Pastor Bob. . Our Lady Of Acceleration Church...

 

[Edward]

I agree completely with doing your research.

Check more than on vendor and look for consensus between those vendors you check. There is a reason why more than one good company is making a triple-disc torque converter. Find that reason.

When I was doing my research I came across two allegations that were aimed at the ATS multi disc converter. One was that the harmonics of the diesel engine would cause the clutches and steels to rattle in the splines and erode or eat through the front cover. The other was, the clutches would drag when the torque converter was unlocked. This would cause the friction material of the clutches to burn and flake off contaminating the ATF, which would cause the transmission to fail. I had to reject both allegations because it is impossible for clutches that are subjected to enough drag to burn the friction material to also be loose enough to rattle and eat through the front cover. Be careful of statements that are unsupportable they are out there.



Edward