ATS or DTT converter?

[inarush76]

marketing...

As has been mentioned, do research and buy what fits you best.

As to the multiple number of vendors offering triple disc converters, many consumers get caught up in "more is better" or "billet" has to be stronger.

In the case of the converters, if one vendor's single clutch, non-"billet" covered converter has no converter clutch slip issues and better fluid coupling(torque transfer out of lock up), holds up to hard use, etc.....

Do research, ask questions, ride in trucks equipped with various converters, then make the choice that is right for you.

I have DTT in both my trucks.

James

 

[Steve G]

I had DTT in my 2000 truck and have just ordered DTT for my 03. Do I need to say more? As has been said, do your research, then get what you want.



Steve

 

[boonsur]

As was mentioned, you really need to personally talk to each vendor before you make up your mind. (Edited - sorry!).



Also, you should also be considering the opinions of the higher horsepower guys (many aren't on the TDR anymore). They have their research & experience to tell which is better. (Search for transmission discussions on other websites as well, where they might be a little more candid).

 

[krs]

"This last fall Mercedes Benz introduced a triple lock-up disc converter for their new 7-G transmission. Mercedes doesn’t make any junk and they only use what has proven to work and work well. Personally I like the idea that I have been using something on my truck for over a year that Mercedes customers are just now beginning to enjoy"



This is inaccurate. Mercedes Benz has used a lockup converter for more than ten years. What they introduced last fall was the world's first commercial seven speed automotive automatic transmission thus perhaps inspiring ATS with a new direction to follow. Only time will tell. Both developments were initiated in order to better meet the requirements of U. S. EPA corporate average fuel economy standards and were not introduced because of any claimed superiority of concept.



We have websites and we have insights here in the TDR don't we?

 

[John_P]

__________________________________

Quote by "boonsur":



"You should discover that one (cough DTT)

knows the Dodge trannys better than the

other. "

__________________________________



Well "boonsur" that is YOUR OPINION, certainly

not mine or hundreds of other very satisfied

(cough,... . ATS) customers!!!



(Steve St. Laurent: Before you get upset at me

please realize that "boonsur" (DTT customer)

started this one!! Looks like it is time to "lock

this one up!")



-----------

John_P

 

[boonsur]

Sorry John, I didn't mean to sound like the other one is bad. In the begining, when the 2nd vendor was just getting into the game, we thought they'd have a disaster on their hand in a few years. They've certainly proved that wrong, even with higher HP applications such as yours. I think they're both good choices. I'm glad I don't have to make the decision (6 speed )





And... I think this thread is good, so newbies can learn from fellow members who have traveled the path.



One thing for sure, nobody has mentioned a bad experience with either vendor. I'd love to hear from sombody who has tried both, but I think it'd be rare, because we stick with what works, especially when that kind of money is on the line.

 

[Pirate4x4]

Originally posted by Blownaway

Pirate, How many miles are on your truck? When did you ditch the stock trans?

When I arrived in Colorado to have the work done, the odometer had just clicked 4,000 miles. It now has 8,000 trouble free hard towing miles on it.

 

[KKlepfer]

"[/B] Boonsur "And... I think this thread is good, so newbies can learn from fellow members who have traveled the path. One thing for sure, nobody has mentioned a bad experience with either vendor. . "



I totally disagree with this post. I don't think TDR is a good place to discuss aftermarket autos.



First of all there is censorship and that has prov-en to be good for the civility of the sight, but it's bad if your trying to figure out which transmission to buy. You can sense in the posts that there are undertones that one is worse than the other (this just adds to the confusion for someone who hasn't done the research on auto transmission's).



Second of all, go to other sights and you will hear of nightmare stories and reasons behind certain failures. This is why you see a lot of posts that say "Do the Research/Call the builders".



The one good thing that comes out of TDR discussions on Auto upgrades is that it stimulates the curiosity of those that really want to know the why's behind the statements and theories.

 

[XcumminsX]

well if anyone has had a bad experience PM me i want to know. It will determine what trans i buy... Or mail me at CUMMINZDIESELMAN@AOL. COM

 

[Edward]

"Originally Posted by Edward

This last fall Mercedes Benz introduced a triple lock-up disc converter for their new 7-G transmission.

Originally posted by KRS

This is inaccurate. Mercedes Benz has used a lockup converter for more than ten years. What they introduced last fall was the world's first commercial seven speed automotive automatic transmission thus perhaps inspiring ATS with a new direction to follow. Only time will tell. Both developments were initiated in order to better meet the requirements of U. S. EPA corporate average fuel economy standards and were not introduced because of any claimed superiority of concept.

KRS

I am not attempting to start a war here but please read more carefully what I wrote. I said that Mercedes “introduced a triple lock-up disc converter this last fall for their new 7-G transmission”, which is 100% accurate. I agree Mercedes has used a standard lock-up disc converter for over 10 years as you said but a single disc and a triple disc are two separate converters. Given the same apply pressure the triple disc converter has three times the holding power over the single disc. Mercedes could have used fluid coupling if they chose however they rejected that concept in favor of the triple disc design. That is why it is important for people to do their research. For those who looking at which converter to purchase I recommend finding out why Mercedes Benz chose a triple disc converter instead of, a converter that relies on fluid coupling. I would like to point out that BMW, GM, Chrysler and Ford also had to meet those same EPA standards and none of them had to develop a triple lock-up disc torque converter to meet those exact same standards. So the EPA cannot be the reason why Mercedes Benz went triple disc. Again Mercedes freely chose the design they wanted to use. I firmly believe that Mercedes Benz has the engineering expertise and staff to fully search out and find the superior torque converter design. I think they did just that.



Edward

 

[rrausch]

I have a friend who just bought a Mercedes. You are correct Edward. Daimler Benz is bringing the Triple Disk Torque Converter to market... a full 3 years AFTER ATS worked all the bugs out of it. Congratulations Clint & Ranee! Excellence is often copied.

 

[krs]

"I would like to point out that BMW, GM, Chrysler and Ford also had to meet those same EPA standards and none of them had to develop a triple lock-up disc torque converter to meet those exact same standards. So the EPA cannot be the reason why Mercedes Benz went triple disc".



Edward, It's pretty fractured logic to make the claim that because

BMW, GM, Chrysler and Ford do not use the beloved converter MBs use of it is not for reason stated. To me it would seem that those errant makers are possessed of a superiority of engineering which allows them not to resort to such desperate and costly measures in order to remain in our lucrative market, or they simply are not such gas guzzling hogs as are the MB cars fueled by gasoline.

And there we have an important point, brought almost accidentally: the consideration of cost. I don't think that even you could make any sort of useful argument that a fluid coupling as used in some performance converters available to us don't work effectively. That being the case wouldn't everyman (you may exclude yourself) prefer to chose that which costs him the least? Why aren't costs brought up as an additional benefit of the system which you use?

By the way, the lockup converter used in MB cars has been a triple disc one since their initial use of the concept. Sorry for feeling as though it was unneccessary to point that out because the point had been previously established in this forum through the use of a link which I believe was provided by you during the last time you brought this irrelevent premise to bear. Remembering old research might be a useful new practice, you think?



Ah Mr. rrausch, I'm glad you're here. I wanted to find out if I could whether or not you had resolved the problem that you had with your Nippondenso alternator?

 

[Edward]

Originally posted by KRS

Edward, It's pretty fractured logic to make the claim that because

BMW, GM, Chrysler and Ford do not use the beloved converter MBs use of it is not for reason stated.

To me it would seem that those errant makers are possessed of a superiority of engineering which allows them not to resort to such desperate and costly measures in order to remain in our lucrative market, or they simply are not such gas guzzling hogs as are the MB cars fueled by gasoline.

KRS

1. So I take it you think Ford and GM have superior engineering to Mercedes Benz. I am willing to stand behind my logic 100%. To follow the route your thinking is taking, you must discredit Mercedes Benz engineering and attempt to elevate Ford and GM way above their class. I would not recommend doing that however since you have chosen that route you will have to take the responsibility for the credibility or lack there of that it adds to your argument.

And there we have an important point, brought almost accidentally: the consideration of cost. I don't think that even you could make any sort of useful argument that a fluid coupling as used in some performance converters available to us don't work effectively. That being the case wouldn't everyman (you may exclude yourself) prefer to chose that which costs him the least? Why aren't costs brought up as an additional benefit of the system which you use?[

2. I will not apologize for paying for superior quality. Yes the good stuff costs more but you get what you pay for.

By the way, the lockup converter used in MB cars has been a triple disc one since their initial use of the concept. Sorry for feeling as though it was unneccessary to point that out because the point had been previously established in this forum through the use of a link which I believe was provided by you during the last time you brought this irrelevent premise to bear. Remembering old research might be a useful new practice, you think?

3 Here is what I said again. "I said that Mercedes “introduced a triple lock-up disc converter this last fall for their new 7-G transmission”. Read it closely it does not give a date as to when Mercedes Benz started using a triple disc torque converter. It only states that the triple disc converter for the 7-G was just introduced this last fall.



Edward

 

[John_P]

boonsur:



Apology accepted!



As you pointed out, when ATS came out with their "TripleLok

Converter", the "other" vendor did think that ATS would have

a "disaster" on their hands! But, due to the excellent R&D

that went into the converter by Clint, Ranee, Ray Elder and

their entire staff at ATS that DID NOT happen!! Quite to

the contrary... ... ... ...

To my knowledge, there has not been one failure of these

"TripleLok Converters" since they were released! The

argument that "locked-to-locked" shifting would not work

just does not hold up anymore!! And there were other

"arguments" that were also brought up by the competitors

that I will not go into here.



The "bottom line" is that the ATS TripleLok Converter and

Stage IV Transmission a tough, reliable unit with an

excellent warranty and dealer base now all across the

U. S. ! The units are in Dodge, Ford and Chevy diesel

pickups some exceeding 500 RWHP (including mine)

and some over 600 RWHP that are drag racing, sled

pulling and towing very heavy loads in steep mountainous

terrain! The fact that some of the other competitors have

a slightly higher "market share" is due to the fact that

the "TripleLok" and Stage IV units have only been really

on the market for a little over two years. Just look at the

"numbers"or "percentages" on this thread alone!! At the

beginning of this thread I recall it was as follows:



DTT: 57. 14%

ATS: 30. 77%



In the last few days it has changed to the following:



DTT: 56. 57%

ATS: 32. 32%



What does that tell you???



Just my . 02cents worth... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...



----------

John_P

 

[c-hawk]

That 1 or 2 more people may have voted? Did i win



I don't think it matters much at all what mercedes, ford, gm or nasa is doing. Were talking about transmissions that go in our dodge trucks, behind our cummins diesels. Maybe i'm simple minded, but it seems irrelevant to me.



The bottom line for me, is that if both have rock solid lock-up, that no one is slipping, I want the one with better fluid coupling, for when i can't be in lock-up. In my opinion, a system that relies on lock up probably isn't going to have as good of fluid coupling as one that uses fluid coupling, and yet still has awesome lock up.



My . 02.



Chris

 

[krs]

Oh Edward, do you lack the facility of memory entirely? I refered to a link which I believe you previously brought in making this same tired old case - uh, previouly means previous to this thread. In THAT episode you gave us the MB announcement and within that was the detail describing the virtual antiquity of the MB triple lock converter. Run along and find your own words, as it were.

While you are doing that, try also to reread my post above to find that what you say I said is not what I said. Hint: "or they simply are not such gas guzzling hogs as are the MB cars fueled by gasoline"



Now, I'm bored. To me money would be far better spent on a new truck than to continually waste it in some perverse preservation for the sake of an silly argument. But far be it from me to spoil a young boy's gamesplaying, so goodbye. I came here to this forum seeking to decide upon which of the exciting new 325/600 versions to buy.

 

[XcumminsX]

why doesnt ats ask if you will be using there components for racing or towing?

 

[Pirate4x4]

Originally posted by XcumminsX

why doesnt ats ask if you will be using there components for racing or towing?

Why don't you TELL them what you'll be using it for?

 

[Blakers]

About time this thread gets moved to Product & Accessories where it belongs.

 

[Matt400]

Originally posted by c-hawk

if both have rock solid lock-up, that no one is slipping, I want the one with better fluid coupling, for when i can't be in lock-up. In my opinion, a system that relies on lock up probably isn't going to have as good of fluid coupling as one that uses fluid coupling, and yet still has awesome lock up.

So far in my research that statement makes the most sense but its biased in that ATS has not returned my email where DTT has. I see allot of time out of lock up in my area so better fluid coupling would be a plus (over stock)



What I don't know yet is if the Trip-Loc simply has more holding power while in lock up or if ATS uses different technology altogether and sends the trans into lock up in 2nd, 3rd' and OD automatically before DTT does.

Does anyone know if 2nd and 3rd lock ups are automatic of user selected in either the ATS or DTT?



As I said before- I have made contact via email with both companies and realize that final decision will be mine but I just like to hear from everyone that is using both units, its what the TDR forums are for anyway.



Thanks everyone for your valued input!