ATS or DTT converter?

[Edward]

Originally posted by c-hawk

LOL, so it's good to be able to pull through your converter? I want the one that has "good" fluid coupling and lock up. Not one or the other. JMO

Chris

Chris

Different strokes for different folks, I am glad you enjoy the tight fluid coupling. Personally I like the way MADDOG2 gets it done. Fast and loose! If that is pulling through the converter then it would seem that pulling through the converter is the way to get it done. Like John Wane said “it ain’t bragging if ya can do it”. By the way Mercedes Benz is also locking up in first on their 7-G transmission. Seems the secret is out.



Edward

Here is what MADDOG2 said:

"Stefan, I have to disagree with you on a couple of things. First of all a Ford auto (E4OD) is the highest horsepower automatic diesel truck out there, and it's doing it all on #2. And second the fastest way to get down the track is with a loose TC launching with 30psi and going into "full" lockup at 4mph and staying there through the 1-2 shift 2-3 shift, and 3-4 shift. If you think I am wrong then show me another 7000lbs truck that can run 11. 28's in the 1/4 and go from 0 to 100 mph in 7. 2 seconds (all on #2, no water-meth, NOS, or Propane)"

 

[rrausch]

My ATS Stage IV will lock up in 2nd at about 17-19 MPH. I've done this both for a little street-ricer-humiliation, and descending steep and twisty mountain grades with the exhaust brake on. THAT'S Versatile! And it doesn't heat-up in traffic!

 

[MCummings]

John_P...



the argument that "locked-to-locked" shifting would not work

just does not hold up anymore!!

Yes it does. Because it still doesn't work. Not in the longrun, or if you are abusive on parts. I tried it, and am still trying it. With less than 5,000 miles 3rd gear was looking a bit darker than the other clutches.

Pirate4x4...

Why don't you TELL them what you'll be using it for?

Who's responsibilty is to ask what the trans will be used for? Who builds and sets up the trans?



If I sell a set of injectors, I want to know if you are putt-puttn a TT, or sled pulling. This tells me what other products you will need, and I need to tell you that you will need them, this will also help me in getting the correct injector to you.

Thus, the same responsibilty falls on the transmission builder to know how to set the transmission up, and what upgraded parts are needed.

XcumminsX...

I am wondering about the transmissions of the 3rd gens only. I dont care about the 2nd gens.

Thing is, the 3rd Gens use the exact same transmission as the 2nd Gens (47RE) or a slightly modified 2nd gen trans (48RE).

curatchko...

(They are)... ripping you(us) diesel guys off BIG TIME. .

I think most are also. $3,500 for a Torque Converter, a couple $5 clutches, and a ValveBody?



I think On the market right now, Value goes hands down to DTT. The transmission is more re-designed, and is built to handle more power, and apply more pressure to clutches and bands while maintaining less overall Line pressure than others.



A big problem that needs addressed is an internally bleeding transmission.

If you have a 10% pressure loss in your transmission, and you modify it to have only 5% pressure loss, you will have 5% more pressure at your servo's, actuators, and pressure operated parts, or, you could run 5% less pressure overall and have the same pressure applied to the servo's actuators, and pressure parts, as the internally bleeding transmission.

Take 10%

at 100PSI pressure at idle (way to high) if you have 10% internal bleeding, then only 90PSi gets to your apply points, where a properly sealed transmission will run 5 more PSI, without having to work any other internal parts harder (seals, pump, etc) but you would have more holding power.





My $. 02

Merrick

 

[banshee]

How is that argumentative?

Because you're making your cute little comments when I wasn't talking you in the first place, Lockliear. You stick your jabs in all the time on these boards when they aren't really needed. Frankly, I don't care where you've been and what you've done. Since you like to correct everyone, though, I'll be sure to correct you from now on.



C-hawk,



you're correct that there are slight differences between Maddog's transmission and the ATS, but in general the theory remains the same: A slightly looser converter that can handle lockup at low speeds. Not all of them can handle it... some even sell "TC Savers" for that reason! How is 1600 rpms pulling though the converter? That's right in the meat of the torque peak which is the best for initial acceleration.

 

[John_P]

_________________________________________

Quote by "MCummings":



"Because it still doesn't (work). Not in the long run

or if you are abusive on parts. I tried it and am still

trying it. With less than 5,000 miles 3rd gear was

looking a bit darker than the other clutches. "

_________________________________________



Well Merrick that is YOUR opinion! If my memory

serves me right you are referring to the Dodge CTD

you bought used from Eric M. which had the 5-speed

to ATS auto "conversion". Maybe you are not using

a heavy enough clutch material in the transmission? My 96'

Dodge CTD (which I know you are familiar with) now

has over 70,000 very hard miles on it and has held up

very well!! Maybe it is time for you to make a change

over to DTT huh?? And as I said,... ... ... . "the argument

that "locked-locked" shifting"would not work just does

not hold up anymore!" Proof of this can be seen at

the drag racing events, sled pulling events and off-road

events all over this country including the Baja 1000

event. Go to www.off-road.com or www.atsdiesel.com

to read about the truck that ran that event last fall!

Heck, even Gale Banks decided to use an ATS Stage

IV TripleLok in his Banks "Sidewinder" Dodge Dakota

and that truck set the land speed record for a diesel!!



Again,... ... ... . just my . 02cents!!



-----------

John_P

 

[MCummings]

John_P. .

Maybe you are not using

a heavy enough clutch material in the transmission?

John,

lol, well, You prove me wrong. I guess it does work. (locked-locked) I do have the DTT way of thinking inside me. It works on the Duramax's, but that transmission was designed to shift that way.



Not using a heavy enough clutch material? How is this my fault?

(by heavy enough, I would think you mean not an aggressive enough friction material?)



Merrick



BTW,, (Hay you can't use . 02,, that's my line. . LOL, plagerism! j/k)

 

[John_P]

Merrick:



Thanks for your response!



And your right, I did mean a more "aggressive" clutch

material! Also, sorry about "stealing" your saying;

"Just my . 02cents!" Good line though... ... ...

One last thing... ... ... ... ..... it's "plagiarism" NOT

"plagerism".



Don't get upset Merrick, I'm just "ribbing you!"



----------

John_P

 

[MCummings]

John_P...

it's "plagiarism" NOT "plagerism".

Well, I didn't want to Plagiarize. lol (Probably didn't spell that one right either! :-laf )



I'm just a little concerned between the business practices from Vendor A compared to vendor D. Vendor D won't sell you something that will break under your circumstanes, unless something freak happens, where as, Vendor A will.



Merrick

 

[KLockliear]

Go argue with yourself, not me.

 

[banshee]

So you're the moderator now, Lockliear?? Thanks for telling me how to post.



And believe me... I can handle ANYTHING you can dish out.

 

[c-hawk]

Originally posted by Edward

Chris

Different strokes for different folks, I am glad you enjoy the tight fluid coupling. Personally I like the way MADDOG2 gets it done. Fast and loose! If that is pulling through the converter then it would seem that pulling through the converter is the way to get it done. Like John Wane said “it ain’t bragging if ya can do it”. By the way Mercedes Benz is also locking up in first on their 7-G transmission. Seems the secret is out.



Edward

There is a world of difference between what Maddog is doing, and what an ats does at the track. According to Maddog, he's going in to lock-up at 4mph, under full throttle acceleration at the track. If banshee was right in his post above and the only way to get in to 2nd lockup with an ats is by selecting the gear, then essentially at the track you don't have practical lockup till 3rd. Still want a loose converter for first and second.

 

[c-hawk]

Originally posted by banshee



C-hawk,



you're correct that there are slight differences between Maddog's transmission and the ATS, but in general the theory remains the same: A slightly looser converter that can handle lockup at low speeds. Not all of them can handle it... some even sell "TC Savers" for that reason! How is 1600 rpms pulling though the converter? That's right in the meat of the torque peak which is the best for initial acceleration. [/B]

Can anyone honestly say, no matter what brand your arguing for, that locked to locked shifting isn't more stressful on parts than shifting unlocked? More stress will mean faster wear, no matter what. The same way our Cummins motors can handle higher hp when we bomb. Do we actually think that were not shortening the life of the motor to some extent by running it at 500hp instead of 250. Same thing with trannys. Locked to locked will wear out parts faster, all other things being equal.



Not everyone wants the same thing from there truck. DTT knows this. That's the reason they sell a TC Saver. For longevity. If your purpose is going fast, then you don't have to use it. You can have lock up in 3rd at the track if you want it. No problem. Versatility. Not a cookie cutter trans.



As for pulling through the converter... Edward said

"This is what I see with my ATS from a dead stop flooring it.



RPM goes straight to 1500. "



if it doesn't even begin to transfer the power in the low rpm range, then in my opinion, your pulling through it. That's what my stock converter did. ATS relies on lockup, but you can't ALWAYS be in lock up.



Chris

 

[rrausch]

Sorry c-hawk you're wrong about ATS. It is understandable as you don't have one!



They don't "rely on lock-up".



ATS has a killer stator which gooses these trucks off the line like a bat out of the hot place. What Edward perhaps didn't say was this: In an ATS truck yes you put your foot to the floor, and yes the rpm's will go to 1500 or so, but there is a BIG smile on your face as your back side is being pounded back into the seat by the G-Force of that elegant, monster Stator, you're holding on to the steering wheel for all you're worth, you're tires are smoking if you are bombed, and you are nervous because it takes a little bit of time to look down at the tach and then look up through the windshield again, and by then you're rocketing down the road!



By contrast, in a stock trans, you put your foot to the floor, the rpm's go up and all you are smoking is your transmission fluid from the heat loss of Fluid Coupling.



Even if ALL an ATS Trans had was that Custom Stator, it would be considered a Great Transmission, better than any other aftermarket transmission. True! But when you add in the best Engineered, Most Bullet-proof, most un-slippable TC in the Diesel world, when you throw in the upgraded electronics and upgraded hydraulics, when you throw in the re-engineered, beef-ed up parts, the upgraded bearings, etc. etc. , you get a little bit of an idea why we guys who first got ATS Transmissions are absolutely wild about them.



Oh yes... you can also throw in ATS's 100,000 mile warranty.

The ATS is so well built, it is the ONLY Performance Trans you can safely shift locked.



Warning about shifting locked: Don't do it unless you are willing to get a big smile on your face.

 

[GIT-R-DONE]

I need some questions answered as I have absolutely no experience with an automatic trans. My next truck i want an auto. ATS and DTT or whomever reworks the trans, are they using the transmission that came with the truck and just using their parts internally or are they replacing the stock transmission with "one of their own".



I would also like to know about cost. I understand (sometimes) you pay for what you get, but, how much difference in price are the transmissions, if you can even compare that. Thanks Don

 

[rrausch]

All the aftermarket Trans. builders use the basic Dodge 47RH or 47RE or 48RE and re-do it to their own specs.



But you are going to do more than ask here. You will need to call both DTT and ATS and form your own decision based on what questions you need answered and what answers you hear. And you will have to investigate that mysterious object, the Automatic Transmission, and learn how it does what it does. It is NEAT!



Another thing you should do is click on to the ATS website and click onto ATSU. (As in ATS University) You will learn a lot about Automatics. One confusing thing about Auto's is that at first everything has an odd-sounding name--a stator for example. But they make it pretty easy to understand.



ATS's number is 800-949-6002 if you want to call them.



With ATS the cost depends on whether you go with Stage I, II, III, IV, or Stage V.

If your transmission is relatively low mileage, you can go with just the TripleLok Torque Converter and Valve Body. Those two will actually prolong the life of your trans and then when you get advance mileage on it you can get the rest of the trans re-done with ATS internal parts, but since you already have the TC and VB, this means you can get the full package in Stages. However they don't recommend getting just the TC and VB if you are High H. P. Moderately bombed it would be ok, but if you are running high H. P. , you'll need the Internal Mods, which with ATS are extensive.



Cost? With ATS it depends on which Stage you get. 2 years ago I paid 3,600. 00 for my Stage IV. I'd do it again in a heartbeat!

 

[TravisG]

This infomercial has been paid for by ATS

Man that solves it Clint and R Rausch are the same person that grew up on the same farm together. Thats how you afford that place in Monett, Mo is with all that extra money you get for soapboxing them here on the TDR.



Dude, call around and talk to everybody. Thats all I can say. I love my transmission, but I would also call DTT, Suncoast, BD, (oh yeah and Goerend , I gotta help my guy out on here if I can get away with it) Listen to what they have got to say and do what you gotta do.



Quote:

"Even if ALL an ATS Trans had was that Custom Stator, it would be considered a Great Transmission, better than any other aftermarket transmission. True! "



False, I can't believe you said that.

 

[XcumminsX]

Get the DTT... I am. Talk about Dtt and you will get a pm from Stefan Kondolay. He is a great guy and will answer any questions you have. Once i get the money he told me i need i am giving him a call. And on my sig youll see DTT .

 

[GIT-R-DONE]

Guys, I wont go any further with the questions. I am curious and I know that I can call either one of these two, plus even more I'm sure. But if I don't know the questions to ask, the phone call is just a waste of time. Thanks anyway... ..... Don

 

[TravisG]

Sorry, Cuda I did not know that you did not know what to ask.



What I did was I called these guyz and explained what I used my truck for and how it was shifting then. Granted my truck has almost 280,000 miles on it and your truck will have 0. After I had driven several other trucks that had aftermarket stuff in them I figured out what I liked and what I did not like. Its all a matter of opinion. The one thing I will agree with RRausch is that the ATSU site is pretty cool to read. That will let you know what these guyz are talking about when you call them. Ifyou want you can give me a call, and I will talk to you about it some, I just got mine rebuilt, and I learned a lot of cool stuff.

 

[rrausch]

Hey TravisG! I just noticed you were from Ferguson, Mo! Cool!



Sorry, but I grew up on that place north of Monett. And Clint grew up in Texas.

But keep the conspiracy theories coming, they're fun.



"Even if ALL an ATS Trans had was that Custom Stator, it would be considered a Great Transmission, better than any other aftermarket transmission. True! "



Travis, it is a GREAT stator! If Dodge had taken the time to make that stator they would have a much more loyal following for their trannys, and there wouldn't be such a strong market for aftermarket Trannys. Luckily Clint, (oops I mean Me) didn't give up with JUST developing a Great stator. He also developed the TripleLoc TC, etc. etc. etc.