2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Attempted Brake Rape at Dealer

[Mike Ellis]

After my brake excitement of the other night, I thought I would have my brakes checked out at one of my friendly neighborhood DC dealerships, in this case Cleburne Dodge here in Texas. Since people say rotors should be turned on the truck and DC dealerships are supposed to be pros, I figured I'd save myself a few headaches over the Christmas holidays.



Took the truck in Monday at 8:00 AM, they had told me they could get to it no problem. I asked them to call and let me know the estimate so I could decide what to have done.



By 3:00, I was wondering what was up, called and no info. "We'll call you before closing. " Called again before 6:00, same story. Result: Nada. Next morning I was on the phone at opening time, they told me they were looking it over. I finally get a call right before lunch, they tell me truck needs a lot of work to the tune of:



PN Item Cost Labor

4886279AB Front Pads (2) $133. 10 / pr

52010013 Front Rotor (2) $358. 00 ea. 2. 5 hrs

4886328AA Rear Shoes (2) $203. 50 / pr 2. 5 hrs

4761603 Wheel Cylin. (2) $51. 12 / pr 2. 8 hrs

plus brake fluid for flush / bleed.



They wanted 2. 5 hrs labor for front brakes, 2. 5 hrs for rear shoes, and 2. 8 hrs for wheel cylinders and bleed - at $71. 00 per hour. Total: $1700. 00, gee what a bargain - especially considering the total costs listed on the estimate are $43 less. Guess that brake fluid is expensive eh? As a bonus, only the front pads were actually in stock.



I told 'em, "I'm on my way to get it, do nothing. "



I was there shortly after lunch, ended up having to pay $77. 00 diagnostic fee and was plenty , told 'em that it would be a cold day in Hades before I paid anything near $358 for a rotor and hub. They told me, "You can't get them cheaper anywhere else... . " and I pointed out that I had been quoted $172 ea by an auto parts store up the road, the service manager went to check on this and as I was going out the door they told me "If you want to get the rotors from them at $172, we'll pick 'em up for you and do the work as we still want to work on your truck. "



Interestingly, I was talking with a fellow outside and he told me that they have a LOT of problems just getting parts now, told me about a guy who has had his 4x4 Ram sitting in the shop for more than 2 weeks waiting on a transfer case cover. DC projected delivery of the part - 29 January 2004! Ouch.



If any of you are contemplating brake work at a dealer, take along some Vaseline fellows...

 

[BillGotthelf]

Did they at least try to kiss you when they gave you that estimate. That is plain highway robbery.

 

[Joe G.]

Mike,



Brakes are pretty easy to do yourself on these trucks. For one thing, if the rotors are not torn up and are within runout specs you don't need to turn them. If they do need turning then get new ones instead. The rotors on these trucks barely have enough metal to deal with the heat if they are not turned. Turning just means less ability to deal with heat. Try NAPA for prices for rotors. I think they are way below others. You need a dial indicator to check the runout before you start and after you finish. I have 228K miles on my '95. The rotors are the originals. They are still smooth except for one small stone grove in one of them. Barely any runout at all. Well within specs. The truck still stops good and in a straight line. Deer on US101 test them every so often.

 

[y-knot]

Brakes are really one of the easier areas to work on, why not buy good quality parts and do it yourself? Also, who ever told you to get the rotors turned on the truck is way off. There are several sources for super quality rotors, and they are not hard to install. I think running a turned rotor is like running a re-tread , ... . it is still just a worn-out rotor.

 

[KBalzuweit]

185k and just put on front pads. $24. Done. Fronts are so easy on our trucks, about 45 min both side with NO air tools.



Backs still 25%. I will do them after I hit 200k.



Karl

 

[dresslered]

I would send that estimate straight to Daimler-Chrysler and post it on Fritz' site (dealer survey). That is absolutely absurd and they wonder where the "St***er" word comes from. Now I feel better.

 

[Sticks]

Daaaamn, and I thought the VP44 was the most expensive bolt on part on our trucks.

 

[Mike Ellis]

I will be doing it myself sometime in the next few days, if I charge myself the $1700 I can afford to pick up a new Wilson . 45



I am just glad my tires were correctly inflated when I took the truck in, because airing them up might have added another $200 or so to the estimate! "But sir, you have 6 tires to fill and air is very expensive nowadays... . "

 

[GAmes]

Auto Zone

A few months ago I had to replace my hub/rotors. The best deal I found was at auto zone. The hubs from HI-Lo O'Reillys were about the same price, but didn't come with lug studs. Auto zones warranty was better too. Seems like they were about $150 each, if my memory is any good.

 

[BPonci]

Why take vasaline,when you need polygrip!!!

 

[bmoeller]

Don't know the price, not listed, but here's another place I found that has wheel bearings for our trucks.



http://www.quad4x4.com/_wsn/page16.html

 

[southpaw]

no brakes get hosed

Mike, sounds as if the dealer you expierenced uses the same labor parts price book as the Huntsville Ala. dealer, those prices are the same as I was quoted last year for my 89. the results were the same don,t touch it any more . however the diagnostic cost was as much as a real brake job should have cost. I only go to the dealer after i have researched and cannot find any alternate source. However when you are in an unfamilar area there isn,t much one can do . one thing I have learned if I find myself in such a circumstance again I will ask someone at a parts supply house for references for repairs. I know when your up to your ears in allegators it,s hard to remember your primary purposre was to drain the swamp. As to your reference to the 45 it,s my favorite to but have lost 70% left and 50% rt. ears ring constantly so cover up good . also the sound enters via your eye sockets, nose, and mouth. I can,t use mine any more! yeh right. I guess we learn best from our trials but hopefully we will only need to do it once. Have a very happy, healthy,safe and prosperous new year. K. Ellis

 

[Mike Ellis]

Southpaw,



You are a . 45 fan too eh, and driving a Cummins diesel? Sounds like the Ellis apples don't fall too far from the tree



Have a great New Year bud, best wishes from the Texas Ellis clan...

 

[DPelletier]

After working in the automotive industry for many years, I can tell you that brake jobs are the single biggest rip-off there is.



Firstly, you don't need to turn the rotors unless 1) they are badly warped or 2) you didn't change the pads in time and were getting metal on metal contact and tore gouges in the rotor surfact.



Shops will ALWAYS want to turn the rotors with the argument being that with the new flat pad surface, you need a new flat rotor surface. If you use the new pads with the old rotors, your new pads will wear to match the rotor in short order, but you will have slightly less braking capacity until they do.

Of course this is a really good make work program for them. If they turn the rotors, they will warp more easily and soon they can bill you for a new set! The thinner the rotor, the easier it will warp.



Most of the time, shops will also rebuild or replace the calipers and the wheel cylinders. Thier rationale for doing this is that the bore has rusted where the piston or disk hasn't been in a long time i. e. at the beginning of the stroke and if they simply install the new pads or shoes, that the calipers/ wheel cylinders will leak as they are pushed back to a position they haven't been in since the last brake replacement. Although this is possible, it is much cheaper to simply try it and replace any leaking calipers/cylinder IF they have a problem. Some shops will also replace wheel seals at the same time in order to prevent contamination of the new brake job.



At the end of the day you end up paying for new pads, calipers, rotors, shoes, wheel cylinders, drums and wheel seals when most of the time you could have gotten away with just a set of pads and shoes.



Sorry for the long rant.



Dave

 

[DPelletier]

After working in the automotive industry for many years, I can tell you that brake jobs are the single biggest rip-off there is.



Firstly, you don't need to turn the rotors unless 1) they are badly warped or 2) you didn't change the pads in time and were getting metal on metal contact and tore gouges in the rotor surfact.



Shops will ALWAYS want to turn the rotors with the argument being that with the new flat pad surface, you need a new flat rotor surface. If you use the new pads with the old rotors, your new pads will wear to match the rotor in short order, but you will have slightly less braking capacity until they do.

Of course this is a really good make work program for them. If they turn the rotors, they will warp more easily and soon they can bill you for a new set! The thinner the rotor, the easier it will warp.



Most of the time, shops will also rebuild or replace the calipers and the wheel cylinders. Thier rationale for doing this is that the bore has rusted where the piston or disk hasn't been in a long time i. e. at the beginning of the stroke and if they simply install the new pads or shoes, that the calipers/ wheel cylinders will leak as they are pushed back to a position they haven't been in since the last brake replacement. Although this is possible, it is much cheaper to simply try it and replace any leaking calipers/cylinder IF they have a problem. Some shops will also replace wheel seals at the same time in order to prevent contamination of the new brake job.



At the end of the day you end up paying for new pads, calipers, rotors, shoes, wheel cylinders, drums and wheel seals when most of the time you could have gotten away with just a set of pads and shoes.



Sorry for the long rant.



Dave





PS. In all fairness, I should recognize that for liability reasons shops and dealerships have an obligation to make sure that you have 100% brakes when you leave the shop. Using new pads on grooved rotors doesn't give you 100% until it wears in (time will depend on pad material, groove depth, brake useage, etc. ). That having been said, what you do in your own garage is your business. Myself, I will just be changing the pads. This doesn't give them any excuse to change perfectly good calipers or wheel cylinders, though.

 

[Joe G.]

Very good rant Dave. My opinion exactly.

 

[rrl989]

My local DC just quoted me $500 for each side front Hub/rotor assy and about $300 total labor. I do need new rotors, Is there anyway I could get a better price for this hub/rotor on-line? If paying the labor rate, doesn't it make sense to just replace the unit rather than just the rotor?



Ron

 

[JoeBioDiesel]

PN Item Cost Labor

4886279AB Front Pads (2) $133. 10 / pr

52010013 Front Rotor (2) $358. 00 ea. 2. 5 hrs

4886328AA Rear Shoes (2) $203. 50 / pr 2. 5 hrs

4761603 Wheel Cylin. (2) $51. 12 / pr 2. 8 hrs

plus brake fluid for flush / bleed.

They were also overcharging on the wheel cylinders. They are an overlap repair when doing the rear brakes. Most of the job is already done. You don't charge the full 2. 8 if doing the brakes too. You add an extra . 5/side, or something similar. It's a common mistake/ripoff in the auto repair industry.



Joe

 

[Extreme1]

Originally posted by FF1063

My local DC just quoted me $500 for each side front Hub/rotor assy and about $300 total labor. I do need new rotors, Is there anyway I could get a better price for this hub/rotor on-line? If paying the labor rate, doesn't it make sense to just replace the unit rather than just the rotor?



Ron

Only replace the rotors, the hubs can live a long time. I still have my originals but 1 new rotor.

 

[CFast]

I work for a Freightliner shop, which is now owned by, damn near chrysler. They took over right about the time I started, now their tentacales have a death hold on us. You need parts for your truck, sorry it's gonna be a while, try next month. You want chrome, well we've got lots of that. Oh, you need a simple little air valve, sorry try next week. You want some chrome nut covers for now? I love DODGE, but i HHHAAAATTTTEEEEE mercedes! I thought we were the only one's having problems getting parts, now i know. $1700 bucks would get you a brake job on a 18 wheeler, doing all new drums and shoe's, truck and trailer. tell your dodge dealer to shove it.