Auto Vs. Manual

[Featherman]

Okay guys, another newbie question... ... ... ... ... ..... How long can one remain a "newbie"?



I have read on this site and other sites about cautioning new CTD buyers to opt for the manual as opposed to an auto, may I ask why? Is the auto that weak in the CTD? If so, what do I have to do to beef it up to ensure no problems?

 

[moremph]

i am to curious on this front. I have been a manual guy for many years, but after a recent purchase of an auto 04 ford 350 dually by a friend, i hjave come to realize that i like the benifits of an auto for just getting in and cruising. Plus when you get one tuned they are really impressuve off the line. In no way would i consider getting rid of my manual trucks however I have been rellay considering my next purchase to be an auto. My last dodge auto was a 93 dakota and i had alot of transmission problems out of it, however i am willing to overlook that issue and try one of the new 48re trannys. However i do believe that in at around the 1000k mile mark to satisfy myself i will prolly converter and valve body the transmission, this seems to be a very strong upgrade in these trannys.



one gripe i have is i wander why dodge has not stepped up with a new 5 spd auto like ford and chevy has with the progressive downshifting. I know many may call this gimmicky why do you need another gear however if you notice dodge has showed the intrest of the 5spd auto in thier lighter duty truck. I kinda find thier change on the labeling on the auto shift handle from the old OD OFF light to tow haul (still just shuts od off) (this is refrence to an 04 model i believe programming may have changed on the 05) as kinda a scape goat.



Furthermore i have towed with both the auto's and manuals in a psd, I find no reason in that application with a tuned 300-350hp truck that a manual transmission be at any advantage to the automatic for towing or vise a versa. Yes the auto cost more to upgrade on the new stout 6spds, (dont get me started on the price of rebuilding an old 5spd) but for overall driving and towing i see no real diffrence. or is thier something i am not aware of the dodge cummins combo. I know coming from nashvill tn to cincy oh in a 04 4dr 350 4x4 with the 6. 0 and the torqushift, or even with the old 00 same setup with a 7. 3l both setup with right around 300 hp neither of which ever dropped out of OD?



I am very intrested in your thoughts on this topic



Sorry for the rambling



Thanks

Travis

 

[Kennywould]

I have read on this site and other sites about cautioning new CTD buyers to opt for the manual as opposed to an auto, may I ask why? Is the auto that weak in the CTD? If so, what do I have to do to beef it up to ensure no problems?

I have two trucks now both auto's, but I don't tow daily! I have driven sticks for a long time and I think if your towing heavy, you have better control with the stick. I like the auto especially in traffic, I've had one knee fixed and I really don't miss all the shifting. I have a friend with 200,000 miles on his auto, no problems, if your going to lead foot it off every traffic light or stop sign an auto won't last, the stick probably won't either with the power of the new trucks, then add the box. I don't baby my trucks and time will tell how they hold up!



There are upgrades for the auto's but they aren't cheap! I guess it comes down to how you drive and what your pulling. If you like shifting gears an auto isn't for you! I did notice a difference in how my 04' pulls vs the 05' but the 05' is a dually and heavier, the tow/haul button on the 05' doesn't lock out the overdrive and that bugs me why they changed it!

 

[smokejunkie]

well here's my 0. 02

If your going to bomb your truck it will need to be beefed up (my version of bombed may differ from yours) I don't care which auto you get ford, d/c it will need to be upgraded at some point. This is quite a bit more money than just throwing a southbend clutch in your 6er. If your going to keep it stock either will handle just fine.

 

[moremph]

Not afriad of beefing it up, hence the tq converter and valve body pretty quick, it will improve shifting and hold up alot longer to alot more power then the stocker, as far as the manual will give you more control i guess descending big hills you can down shift and not freewheel and pro long brake life, however if you can get a progressive downshifting transmission like the 05's do i believe then that helps with control quite a bit.



Anybody out thier know if you can have an 04 ecm updated to the 05 program with the new transmission features?



Travis

 

[DieselMinded]

RMissyabit, Go to www.Dieseltruckresource.com click on tech facts then transmissions its a good artical that explaines how auto transmissions are more capible of pulling heavy loads. Suprised me when I read it.



Id link it but IP's blocked



DM

 

[gsbrockman]

Not afriad of beefing it up,

Travis... . you need to go for a ride in Time Out's 2002 Dodge 2500 Quad Cab Auto (ATS). You will have a nice grin on your face..... I drove it in Falmouth, KY. and it's sweeeeeettt ! Depending on the bombing level, the auto or the 6 shooter will need to be upgraded. There's a lot to "row" in the NV5600... . I'd look at the auto again personally.

Greg

 

[Featherman]

As usual guys very insightful information... ... ..... As far as intentions, I have a 20 foot car hauler that I haul with occasionally, two to three trips to the states. So far I've made a trip down to the Dallas, Fort Worth area and to Demoines, Iowa. Trips planned this year will be to Fargo, North Dakota, Williston, North Dakota and the Mopars at The Strip car show in Vegas at the end of March. Don't hammer it off every stop, but like to cruise on the highway.

 

[DiezelDriver]

Dad went with the auto because he's just too damned addicted to caffeine to put my coffee down to shift. I also have a 92 mildly bombed with 185K on it and the trans has never been out. Same go's for the 96 with 156K (for sale)

The last stick he had was a never ending nighmare (85 Dodge) Towed about the same with all, 3 horse trailer about 5k miles/ year. By the way we just rebuilt the trans in mom's 97 Town & Country, 218K, 3-4 drive broke, some things just don't last

 

[700rmk]

After owning

1 '01 5 speed

1 '01. 5 6 speed

1 '04. 5 auto

and now

'05 6 speed



reason for the recent change...



1. Any auto I have driven has had the dreaded vibration... 6speed didnt...

2. 3-5 mpg better fuel economy both empty and towing. .

3. Cheaper upgrades

4. better control while decending hills with load, I had the auto loaded to 19,250# over Donners Pass... wow... what a ride... .



that about sums it up...

 

[Task125]

had a 96 auto,left it stock,a 98. 5 auto w ez was fine then put stage 2 injectors the trans would shutter on full throttle,spent 5000. 00 on trans upgrade/rebuild converter,valve body,shift controller,comp box.

was a great set up lots of cash and maintenance though.

now have a 03 6 speed. stock for now waiting for juice box. I love the 6 speed with exhaust brake feels like you are driving a truck.

 

[FATCAT]

RMissyabit, Go to www.Dieseltruckresource.com click on tech facts then transmissions its a good artical that explaines how auto transmissions are more capible of pulling heavy loads. Suprised me when I read it.



Id link it but IP's blocked



DM

Wow, I guess all those Peterbults, Kenworths, Macks, Western Stars I see pulling excavators, bulldozers, and other multi ton loads down the highway are running auto trannies ... who-da-thunk?



Auto trannies = the computer controls the truck

Manual = YOU control the truck.

 

[XJSuperman]

It's really almost to the point where it is personal preference. I had an '04 auto... it was fine. But I have always driven manual trans vehicles (trucks and cars) and prefer it that way. SO when the deal presented itself (got a better deal) to buy a manual cummins I jumped on it.



It's my opinion that a lot of auto transmission failures are not due to crap parts... they're due to crap drivers. If the auto trannies were so bad in the big 3's big trucks... there would be MASSIVE recalls and the like. Sure there are problems as with any product... but I haven't read here at any time about a sudden rash of 48RE failures... nor have a heard of a large amount of ferd and/or chebbie transmission failures. Sure on the board here we are privvy to more info then most general consumers BUT think of how many trucks are out there on the road both 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gens with auto tranies and other than general maintainence have had no issue in tens of and even hundreds of thousands of miles. . we never seem to hear about those. This board is a lot like the media at times in that all we hear is the bad... you don;t always hear the good.

A lot of folks simply do not know how to drive properly ... much less tow well over the GCWR with their trucks so I would expect them to burn up their trucks. I'll admit I don't... I have over 8,000 miles on my truck and have yet to haul more than 2 cords of wood with it (and that was only for about 1/8 mile).

THink of how many guys here who don't have any guages... I bet there's a few. Then think of how many thousands of folks who don't belong to this board (or another) and don't have guages... that's a surefire way to tear something up if you don't monitor it properly... but I bet when they do burn it up... they blame the product and not themselves. To me these folks just don't know how to drive this type of vehicle properly.



With that said yes I do realize that the transmission can and will fail on its own without driver error.



I prefer to drive a manual for these reasons... and they are reasons that have been stated here MANY times fro MANY folks... but that doesn;t make the manual better... just different:



#1) Cheaper/easier to maintain properly

#2) cheaper/easier to repair/replace

#3) cheaper to upgrade (clutches are MUCH cheaper than torque converters)

#4) As stated... YOU control the truck.

#5) It's a lot more fun.



So with all that fluff out of the way. . get what you want... if you aren't happy with it... change. BUT if you drive them right and pay attention to what you are doing, chances are it won't matter what transmission you get.

 

[BHolm]

To the point of the original question... . there is no reason to avoid the 48re auto trans. I have a pair of '03s that tow heavy (15k daily) for a living. They are both up over 75k miles now without a single problem. Replacements for those trucks will most likely be manual trans trucks as the drivers I use now are all "truck drivers" where before I used a wider variety of folks to drive, some I didn't trust with the proper use of a manual. For my personal trucks I kind of like the auto for the simple "floor it and go" factor. The auto is also a little easier on the animals when pulling the horse trailer, no back and forth when shifting.



I think Dodge will step up shortly with a five or more speed auto that has real grade braking. It is tough though, the power levels are rising quickly which makes designing a strong enough transmission at a decent cost difficult. I wouldn't bother trying to get the '05 transmission programming either. I have had a couple of trucks with the Allison and what they have done with the 48re is worthless by comparison. It works much better going up the hills than down. I use it a lot in the mountains even empty because it keeps the convertor locked a lot more. Coming down... . it really does little or nothing to slow the truck.

 

[DPelletier]

This has been discussed at length many times. I suggest a search on "auto vs. 6 spd" for hours of reading enjoyment.

In an attempt to answer the original question;

- the auto (48RE) isn't "that weak in the CTD". I think its fair to say that it has been holding up fairly well.

- You don't need to "beef it up" at all if you are stock or almost stock.



That having been said, the NV-5600 is stronger, more reliable and the increased gear choices make it a better transmission for towing heavy in the mountains. On the other hand, the 48RE doesn't require shifting and is fairly reliable for an automatic transmission. As I've said many times before, the best choice depends on useage. For alot of city traffic and the ability to drive whilst slurping coffee or talking on your cell phone, the 48RE is the better choice. For towing near max GVWR in varying terrain the NV-5600 is superior.

Don't let anyone tell you that the NV-5600 needs to be beefed up too, if you bomb. It may need a clutch, but that's it. I've never even heard of a power related NV-5600 failure.



Cheers,

Dave

 

[hasselbach]

I can't believe I almost missed this post! I participated in a long long thread a few months ago when I was the only one out of about 150 responses that supported the automatic and the highly desirable torque converter over the clutch set up. However, I decided to trade in my 04. 5 48re this month and have ordered a 05 6 speed instead. I love my 03 duramax with the 5 speed Allison, but in my humble opinion, the 48re is missing one gear, and stinks for lack of grade braking. It drives me nuts seeing the TC unlock in 3rd and 4th everytime you lift your foot off the throttle. I'm sure after spending $3500 to upgrade the trans it will be better, but it still is a 4 speed. And to those that tout the virtue of the Cummins flat torque curve not needing a 5th gear. . that's a bunch of crap. How nice it would be to have a lower 1st ratio, and a taller final gear... My 05 is slated to have the new G56 transmission (dodge-Mercedes co venture I'm told, and it is not the getrag unit previously thought of). I'll write about it as soon as I pick up next month.

 

[EEdmondson]

Hasselbach in a manual trans??? I don't beleive it!

 

[hasselbach]

Hasselbach in a manual trans??? I don't believe it!

Not too loud,, please. I have my reputation to keep...