Automotive Diagnostic System

[MCervinka]

Is there a automovtive diagnostic system for our new 3rd gen trucks? That way we can be ready for the service techs when they say there are no problems with your truck. I'm looking for something that would give me trouble codes.

 

[rbattelle]

There are a million options. I use this one with a universal connector so it will mate with any NAS vehicle.



-Ryan

 

[mberry]

Your odometer will give you any diagnostic trouble codes and there is a list of the definitions in the first time diesel owners section of this forum.

 

[Truckie]

I was just out at Walmart this evening and saw they had a OBDII scanner for $98.

Will it work on the 3rd gens we got?

 

[mberry]

Truckie,



I'm not sure but I think so.

 

[rbattelle]

All vehicles for sale in the US beginning with the 1996 calendar year are required to be compliant with the OBD-II standard. Therefore, every vehicle for sale in the US can be accessed and diagnosed using a computer interface that complies with the OBD-II standard.



Period.



-Ryan

 

[SVenable]

I have been going through this issue with the AutoTap I use. Dodge switched the computer bus to a CAN bus so I can only read the emission codes, none of the computer manufacturer specific codes. Hope to have updated software soon, the new interface will connect and read the bus, just need the software. OBD2 means you are only able to read generic ODB2 codes. There is alot more information than the generic codes. Especially for a diesel.



I use this on both Jeeps and the Caddy and it works great. Saved a bunch fixing the cars, especially the caddy myself.



Steve

 

[rbattelle]

Every engine-related diagnostic trouble code can be read with a standard OBD-II interface. All the CAN communicator will get you is additional sensor information and maybe some of the transmission computer codes. Of course, they can also all be accessed using the odometer trick as mentioned.



-Ryan

 

[MCervinka]

I found this company. Will this work with our trucks. http://www.autoenginuity.com/products-scantoolppc.html#fn1

 

[rbattelle]

EVERY OBD-II scanner on the market will work with our trucks. The only question is, what extras do you want with it? Data logging? Enhanced data (implies CAN-compliance)? The only distinguishing characteristic is "additional features". If all you want is to read DTCs, then save yourself $100 and use the odometer method.



-Ryan

 

[MCervinka]

Thank you. The odometer method does work but will it work as well as the scanner.

 

[rbattelle]

The odometer method does work but will it work as well as the scanner.

Absolutely. It will tell you the trouble codes just as well as a scanner will.



Then you can come on here, post the code, and someone will tell you what it means.



-Ryan

 

[MacHaggis]

Acknowledging that a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing . . .



Didn't I see a thread around here somewhere (maybe another TDR forum) in the last evening or two about a "mystery" code that showed on the odometer, that indicated that there were other codes the odometer wouldn't show? Does OBD-II equipment show those codes or are those hidden "sub-codes" part of the CAN protocol?



Not challenging. Just looking to learn.

 

[nauidvr1]

Ryan,

So, overall, how do you like Alex Peppers software? I have been considering this since I read a post you made over a year ago.



I have a "Car Chip/EX" by Davis (www.davisnet.com/drive/products/drive_product.asp?pnum=8221). But read a post by someone on this forum that it made the dash lights do funny things and put the truck into "limp" mode or shut it down. So I have never tried the "Car Chip" on my trucks. I have considered a hand held device, but I am more of a computer guy anyways and think I can benifit more from a software package.



So, basically, I want to hear more of the pros and cons from your expirence with this package. Is there any advantage of getting the CAN protocol for the 2005 3rd GENs.

 

[rbattelle]

Ryan,

So, overall, how do you like Alex Peppers software? I have been considering this since I read a post you made over a year ago.



I have a "Car Chip/EX" by Davis (www.davisnet.com/drive/products/drive_product.asp?pnum=8221). But read a post by someone on this forum that it made the dash lights do funny things and put the truck into "limp" mode or shut it down. So I have never tried the "Car Chip" on my trucks. I have considered a hand held device, but I am more of a computer guy anyways and think I can benifit more from a software package.



So, basically, I want to hear more of the pros and cons from your expirence with this package. Is there any advantage of getting the CAN protocol for the 2005 3rd GENs.

I can't really comment on the Car Chip... I have no experience with it.



As for Peper's software, I like it. But I must warn you that it isn't really as pretty as things like AutoTap or Autoenginuity. What I'm saying is, Pepers software is at least as capable as those (perhaps moreso) but doesn't look as nice on-screen. My biggest complaint about AutoTap and Autoengenuity is they use somewhat deceptive sales tactics and Peper doesn't. For example, on AutoTap's website it says:

Fast Data Updates – Using a Windows based PC, AutoTap will update and log over 40 parameters per second on some vehicles!

This is true, sort of. The truth is that the OBD-II protocol is a message based system. The scan tool sends a request to the vehicle computer for a specific parameter, and the vehicle computer responds within a certain period of time with the requested information. The catch is, only one message can be sent at a time, and the scan tool must wait for a response before sending the next message. Different vehicles are capable of different communication rates, but they're all really quite slow. Now, if you're monitoring 1 parameter, you might be able to achieve 40 scans per second. But if you're monitoring 2 parameters, you're only going to achieve about 20 scans per second. And so on. Personally, I monitor all the available parameters (I think there's around 12), so my update rate is relatively slow (maybe 1 update per second or so). This has absolutely nothing to do with the software and everything to do with the specific data exchange rate your specific vehicle is programmed to provide (some experimentation must be conducted with the software to determine the maximum parameter request rate that won't result in software errors). AutoTap seems to want people to believe that their software is somehow "better" at extracting data quickly. It can't be; you can't force the vehicle computer to respond at any particular speed.



Peper's software is no-nonsense stuff. But, it's documentation is poor at best and it can be difficult to understand it at first (the basics are easy). I'm getting ready to exchange my connector out for one that has CAN capability, but I'm not sure what exactly that will get me (if anything). I will start a thread on it if I find I can interface with the CAN system on our trucks and get some additional sensor data. In my personal opinion, the "average" user would be very disappointed in Peper's stuff. But "power users" would like it better than AutoTap or Autoenginuity.



Peper's software does include manufacturer-enhanced data, but it doesn't seem to work with our late-model trucks (at least, I've never been able to make it work). I think this may be due to the CAN bus. See, to sell vehicles in the US DC is required to provide certain OBD-II mandated parameters (and there's a lot of them... it's just that most of them have no application to diesels). On the 2003-up trucks, they switched to CAN bus and buried the enhanced parameters within that protocol (probably so they could keep the data closer and force people to go to the dealer for diagnostics). Now Peper's software has CAN capability, and so do AutoTap and Autoenginuity, but it will likely be some time before it works completely with our trucks. For example, I can easily read every trouble code that my truck can generate, but I can't read what the rail pressure sensor is doing at any given moment because that data is held hidden within the CAN bus. I don't know if Peper's software (or anyone else's) can "see" that sensor by logging onto the CAN bus yet.



The CAN (Controller Area Network for those who don't know what that means) is a big step forward in terms of functionality and communications speed. Unfortunately for us, manufacturers are not mandated to let any outside computers log into the bus. So they chose not to, so that you have to go to a dealer to get specific sensors read. Good from a business perspective, bad from our perspective. CAN access is slow in coming. There is some debate as to whether some manufacturers will allow any outside computers to log onto their CAN systems. The way I understand it, every computer on the bus has a unique ID. So all the manufacturer has to do is restrict the IDs of computers that are permitted to be on the bus to those manufactured by them (example - DRB-III).



DC, the nice friendly company they are, even disabled the communications port that comes on the CM845 (or CM850) engine computer that's bolted to the side of your engine block. That port would allow us to communicate with the ECM directly (bypassing the CAN bus), but DC made Cummins turn it off. The connector is there, but from everything I've been able to find, it doesn't actually produce any communications.



It's all rather frustrating, really. But let's face it, if all you want to do is read DTC's (Diagnostic Trouble Codes), just use the odometer and post the codes on here. If you want to do data logging and monitor vehicle systems in real-time, then you need something more sophisticated. One other thing... the software gives you the ability to view the freeze frame data. Whenever a DTC is set, the vehicle computer captures a snapshot of every sensor input on the vehicle and stores it in the freeze frame. When I read a code, I can view the snapshot and it might provide clues as to what really went wrong (it hasn't yet for me, but I can imagine it might some day).



-Ryan

 

[nauidvr1]

Ryan,

Thanks for the disertation - Wow, lots of typing.



I am looking at the AutoEnginuity scan tool and Alex Peppers stuff right now. Not sure which way I am going to go yet. But AutoEnginuity seems to have released the Chrysler Enhanced stuff now or buy Aug 19th.



Is there any way a person can try out Alex Peppers software for a trial period? Does it have a serial number that is linked to a specific computer once installed or "activated"?

 

[rbattelle]

But AutoEnginuity seems to have released the Chrysler Enhanced stuff now or buy Aug 19th.

Please be careful. You might call Autoenginuity and ask them if their enhanced parameters cover DC diesel's 2003-up. Peper also has DC enhanced data AND DC diesel enhanced, but it doesn't work with my truck due to the CAN architecture.



On edit:

I just looked over Autoenginuity's site and they're doing the same thing AutoTap does: deceptive reporting of "features". They imply their software does things "others don't offer". For example, "Bi-directional support". They ALL have bi-directional support by definition. They are all capable of initiating tests. This feature is not useful for us diesel owners, however.



"VIN Reporting". Give me a break, they all do this. It's trivial.



My point is, if you buy AutoTap or Autoenginuity, buy them because you like the way they look. They are no more functional than Peper's, except possibily in Autoenginuity's ability to export XML format.



-Ryan

 

[MCervinka]

Thank you for all your replys.

 

[ohnoitsyu]

rbattelle,

Thank you for the informative post.

 

[nauidvr1]

Ryan,

Thanks for the advice. I am an old DOS dummy and been 'round 'puters for years. I think I can handle Peppers software (even with the quirks I've read about). You can't beat it for the price.