Bad ECM?????

[DaleStevenson]

I have a 2004.5 325/600 bone stock with 89??? miles on it. Problem began with it dying at idle about 3 or 4 times. Took it to local Dodge dealer and he tells me I have bad ECM so he ordered a "new" one, rebuilt with 2 year warranty. I was told it checked bad and they have ordered another "new" one. The odometer gave me an error code of P0628 which on my'03 was low voltage to lift pump, low voltage to fuel pump. I was told the problem would not get any worse. There has been a lot of delay getting part so I got truck to be driving locally. Paid tow bill tonite to return truck to dealer because now it wont run at all, left me stranded. I have doubts about bad ecm, haven't seen much about those going bad. This has all transpired over about a 2 1/2 week period with the truck setting at dealer most of the time. I would appreciate input as to bad ecm versus bad lift pump versus ???. Thank you in advance for your input..

 

[DaleStevenson]

Should have said on 30 error code. I don't have an 03 but cold not find list of codes for 04.5. Don't know if different

 

[Ozymandias]

Do you have the Retrofit Pump in the Tank installed or still the sucker on the fuel filter canister?

 

[DaleStevenson]

It is not in tank, I was shown that it is inside driver front wheelwell on the frame or engine block, not sure which but definitely not in tank. I am also very interested to know which is better, convert to intank or replace as is by engine....

 

[Tuesdak]

Have them verify ECM voltage on the scanner. Sound like the ECM may be browning out and failing due to a bad connection, ignition switch, ground, shorted sensor/wire, etc. Check batteries and connections first. Possible the lift pump is shorting out or just a ghost code from low voltage. Check fuses by pulling them out and making sure they are ok and no corrosion on the fuse connector blades. Take apart and clean all grounds.

I hate dropping the tank for fuel pumps or clogged socks. (Or paying for someone else to drop the tank.) The dealer bill to 'convert' to in tank pump is very high. Gino's Garage sells 'improved' replacement on canister lift pumps.

 

[DaleStevenson]

Thank you JDoremire. I found out this morning the dealer stared and drove truck and it functioned as normal. Would not run last evening. Svc Mgr tells me that after ECM cools it can function as it should but when lift pump goes it will not function. A pain in the tail!!!!!

 

[Tuesdak]

Shorts get things hot... Unplug the lift pump and see if it restarts? Maybe check the ohms or current draw of the lift pump. Inspect wires to it for shorts.

 

[sag2]

The chances of a bad ECM are Slim to none, and Slim just left. The price of an aftermarket engine mounted pump is far less than an ECM. I would take a guess at the pump first. Besides if it has not been replaced before it is a little insurance and still less expensive than a tank mounted, although not as robust.

 

[DaleStevenson]

I have been following TDR for several years. Seems to me like there have been very few postings about ECM's but several about lift pumps. That is a large part of why I posted this. As sag2 said, not much likelihood of ECM but dealership insists it is that. Will see, they better be right because it is an expensive repair. Thank you all for your input.

 

[Tuesdak]

I doubt the Dealer will give you anything but the in-tank replacement option if it is the lift pump as the part is no longer available from FCA or Cummins. (It is available aftermarket redesigned from the same company that made the OEM.) I suggest you look for a independent local Diesel shop including Cummins dealers. The Cummins dealers do recommend good local shops that can read the Dodge ECM's as Cummins can't.

 

[TCDiesel]

The chances of a bad ECM are Slim to none, and Slim just left. The price of an aftermarket engine mounted pump is far less than an ECM. I would take a guess at the pump first. Besides if it has not been replaced before it is a little insurance and still less expensive than a tank mounted, although not as robust.

I agree on the ECM, The canister mount pump may not last as long ( although I just replace one today at 12 years old) its easily replaced and much easier to know when it fails at 1/4 of the cost of the in -tank repalcement, I deal with dealerships constantly recommending the mostly costly part as the problem $$$$ but in the end its simple repair, then they will blame the truck for the parts failure, I had 2 cases this week so far, yes Sag2 Guys like You and BoB4x4 are rare find at dealerships.

 

[mfurrh55]

Buy the in-tank pump and retro fit it yourself, i did this to the 01 i used to have, took a couple hours and good as new, you get a wiring connector that goes back to the in tank pump and it really does make a difference, just cypher your fuel down so the tank isnt too heavy, i had 1/4 tank of fuel when i did mine, it is not hard to do, and you save a bunch of money, Monte

 

[TCDiesel]

The 2001 had the VP44 injection pump , this pump required 500ML just to keep it cool, it had a very week internal pump, at times its volume was just enough to feed the combustion side, the internals suffer form lube fuel and it self-destruct, couple that with the week engine mounted pump it was a recipe for failure. None of this exist with the CP3, in fact it is equip with a rear mount (GP) Gear pump at 2200Rpms its capable of producing 250GPH, The CP3 is regulated by a internal lube system regulated by the COV, you CANNOT starve this pump if fuel is not adequate the valve stays shut thus 0 combustion fuel, The GP creates MAX 25hg @ 2200Rpms but at less then 300Rpms (Cranking) creates only 6-8hg this is not enough to put fuel form the Tank it must by primed, thus lift pump, The Duramax 2001-2010 CP3 has NO lift pump OEM equip that's why its has the hand prime pump on the filter housing.The canister mounted pump can be changed in a parking lot in less then 30 minutes and the pump cost $160.00. Why in the heck would anyone want a in tank pump that can leave you stranded and cost 3 times more to replace, In tank pumps fail just like any electronic device The shop has replace 1000s of them over the years generally 3-5 weekly all makes and type.

If the OP had the in tank already retrofitted I could see just do the drop in replacement and be done with it, but if he doesn't why spend the additional $$$ just for the risk.

 

[Ozymandias]

I think the Intank Unit is far superior to the prior canister mounted type, there are very few Thread about problems with an Intank Unit.

It's a good an reliable solution for a stock truck that doesn't need extra fuel supply.

 

[TCDiesel]

So BC their NO threads makes it good, the Internet NOT just forums is very small % of failures, By the way that pump is still used in many commercial applications still pumping 14 years later. The truth , the best in tank pumps are OEM, That put Chrysler in line for most future purchased in tank pumps, Most knowledgeable shops won't install aftermarket in tank pumps do to the failure rate.

Extra fuel supply? in tank pumps are capable of 80+GPH that's good to 600HP for sustained periods.

Another big factor is most forum Members own 1 or 2 trucks ,base all their knowledge form that, Whats worst some will post absolute facts in resentment of the outcome. That makes the social media shakable ground for factual info.

What makes forums valve able is input on what questions to ask, this puts the repair facility on notice that you have look into possible cause and just not subject to the possible lack of knowledge the repair facility may support.

In other word your NOT going to get screw over by some dumbass, that's motivate by profits $$$.

 

[mfurrh55]

When my airdog went south, my intank pump was disconnected and the CP3 still sucked fuel through it, the only problem was when opened up throttle it couldn't keep up with the CP3, other than that i could have went with it disconnected, my oe intank pump has over 147, 000 miles on it and is still running strong, This is the reason to put an intank pump in your vehicle, for longevity and peace of mind, Worth it in the long run, my .02, Take it or leave it, Monte

 

[TCDiesel]

Do to the in tank design with 1 way capacity It surprise me You were able to pull thru it, I had 2 calls yesterday on in tank failures, both were far form Home and would NOT start, I instruct both to crawl under the vehicle with someone cranking and kick the tank this will usually allow the motor brushes to engage and the pump will start, this worked for both and they made it to their destinations. I can't count how many vehicles have been towed to the shop in MC ,just to have us go out and kick the tank and drive into the shop to change the in tank pump.

 

[DaleStevenson]

Great information. Thank you all. What really makes me curious is there was a new rebuilt ECM ordered and "checked out to be bad". HMMMMMMM Also being told it takes 7 to 10 days to get new ECM. They tell me that when the truck has cooled off it runs fine. So many questions and doubts, if this second ECM checks bad I am loading my truck on trailer and headed elsewhere.

 

[S.Morris]

, The Duramax 2001-2010 CP3 has NO lift pump OEM equip that's why its has the hand prime pump on the filter housing.The canister mounted pump can be changed in a parking lot in less then 30 minutes and the pump cost $160.00. Why in the heck would anyone want a in tank pump that can leave you stranded and cost 3 times more to replace, In tank pumps fail just like any electronic device The shop has replace 1000s of them over the years generally 3-5 weekly all makes and type.

If the OP had the in tank already retrofitted I could see just do the drop in replacement and be done with it, but if he doesn't why spend the additional $$$ just for the risk.[/QUOTE]

I agree with Todd, except that a replacement in tank pump including labour/towing (cause your truck left you stranded with your RV behind it on the interstate, and you are 1000miles from home)will be more like at least 10x the cost of the canister mounted pump. I carry a spare(the spare is the perfectly working pump I removed at 150K miles as preventive maintenance, and replaced with a new one 80K miles ago) , and tools to do the 1/2 hr job.

 

[DaleStevenson]

My truck is fixed. Dealership held to bad ECM, took truck elsewhere & put a new lift pump on it and it is once again running as it always has. Thank you all for your help...