bad fuel and the big scam

[rob10858]

this is the dealers way of not honoring the warrranty on the transfer pump, how many more of you guys have had this excuse, and why doesnt cummins step up and protect their rep on this 6. 7 45000 miles. after owning 15 fleet trucks , this isnt what i expect from a good american co. do they even know what is going on, if not someone at tdr should make a few calls. first bad post on my babys, but enough is enough.

 

[MullenaxM]

I'm a little confused, What did they say was wrong with the fuel? Did the fuel transfer pump quit working? What was the reason for not honoring the warranty?



Maybe I can be of help



Mike

 

[HBarlow]

What is the point of this thread? You didn't provide any information, just a vague complaint with zero facts.

 

[rob10858]

sorry guys, just a little upset last night. trying to make a long story short , truck began to have starting issues, long cranking and then cutting off. called our dealer the day before he closed his doors for good, and their tech suspected the lift pump. i was given the name of the nearest dealer 70 miles away and set up an appointment. after a day in the waiting room, i was told that the pump was bad due to some kind of contaminate in the fuel. $472 for pump, $800 f labor five day wait for a work truck sceduled to go out in two days. called my local shop and they said that if i could get the pump, they could drop the tank and install it the next day. when i picked up the truck, they said that whatever was in the fuel must have disappeared on the drive home, because the fuel that they drained looked good and the screen on the pump was also clean. the dealers work order said "fuel analysis" but all i was shown was a half gallon jug with some diesel in it that appearred to have some orange liquid floating in it. during my search for an aftermarket pump later, i was told more than once by some suppliers, "let me guess, bad fuel right? been hearing alot of that lately" so there it is, bad fuel bad pump sorry no warranty. our delers have always been great to us, but i guesss with the demise of chrysler, we are our own warranty station for everything

 

[HBarlow]

You made a costly mistake when you left the Dodge dealer's service bay without demanding a share of the "contaminated fuel" that they based the warranty refusal on. Now you have no proof that the fuel was clean, or, for that matter, contaminated. No evidence = no proof of your position.

I've never heard from a fellow Dodge owner or read on the TDR about any dealers claiming fuel was contaminated and denying a fuel system warranty claim.

I have no idea whether your fuel was contaminated, or not, but keep in mind, a dealer is paid for replacing bad parts whether by Chrysler under warranty or by you if it is not.

I suppose it is possible that dealers may know that Chrysler is in such dire financial straights that they are slow-paying or possibly not paying for warranty claims, don't know, but an honest dealer is not likely to do that.

It is possible also that your local suppliers have heard of claims of fuel contamination from dealers in your area which could mean that there has been actual contamination in your area.

 

[JDiepstra]

You made a costly mistake when you left the Dodge dealer's service bay without demanding a share of the "contaminated fuel" that they based the warranty refusal on. Now you have no proof that the fuel was clean, or, for that matter, contaminated. No evidence = no proof of your position.



I've never heard from a fellow Dodge owner or read on the TDR about any dealers claiming fuel was contaminated and denying a fuel system warranty claim.



I have no idea whether your fuel was contaminated, or not, but keep in mind, a dealer is paid for replacing bad parts whether by Chrysler under warranty or by you if it is not.



I suppose it is possible that dealers may know that Chrysler is in such dire financial straights that they are slow-paying or possibly not paying for warranty claims, don't know, but an honest dealer is not likely to do that.



It is possible also that your local suppliers have heard of claims of fuel contamination from dealers in your area which could mean that there has been actual contamination in your area.

Really I hear it often. Do you go on any other forums Harvey?

 

[Bob4x4]

Just to put any rumours to rest Dodge is paying warranty claims and service contracts. The BK court has also ok'd paying lemon law claims.

 

[HBarlow]

Really I hear it often. Do you go on any other forums Harvey?

No.

And threads like this are the reason why I don't.

 

[Forrest Nearing]

don't have to go to other forums... just talk to people...



"bad fuel" is the biggest warranty scam out there in the diesel world...



common rail fuel systems are sensitive... I'm surprised the screwed you on a lift pump, but there have been lots of injector, pump, ENGINE failures denied due to "bad fuel"

 

[AHarris]

sorry guys, just a little upset last night. trying to make a long story short , truck began to have starting issues, long cranking and then cutting off. called our dealer the day before he closed his doors for good, and their tech suspected the lift pump. i was given the name of the nearest dealer 70 miles away and set up an appointment. after a day in the waiting room, i was told that the pump was bad due to some kind of contaminate in the fuel. $472 for pump, $800 f labor five day wait for a work truck sceduled to go out in two days. called my local shop and they said that if i could get the pump, they could drop the tank and install it the next day. when i picked up the truck, they said that whatever was in the fuel must have disappeared on the drive home, because the fuel that they drained looked good and the screen on the pump was also clean. the dealers work order said "fuel analysis" but all i was shown was a half gallon jug with some diesel in it that appearred to have some orange liquid floating in it. during my search for an aftermarket pump later, i was told more than once by some suppliers, "let me guess, bad fuel right? been hearing alot of that lately" so there it is, bad fuel bad pump sorry no warranty. our delers have always been great to us, but i guesss with the demise of chrysler, we are our own warranty station for everything

While the other guy who said you made a mistake not getting a fuel sample has a point, a paying customer shouldn't have to ask for a fuel sample. If the dealer failed to provide the proof without having to be asked, then they either have an integrity problem or their head up their arse. If the fuel pump went before the end of the warranty, then Chrysler should replace it without trying to screw the customer over like this... on a $40K truck, the burden of proof should be on them to show that the owner negligently put bad fuel in it. If that is indeed proven, then it seems the filling station that dispensed the fuel should bear some liability.

Don't have all the facts, but this sort of stinks. These are expensive trucks and owners deserve better service than this! If this were me, I would raise holy hell before I would be the stuckee!

I'd try a different dealer if I were you. Hope you have some luck getting this fixed.

 

[Turbo1Ton]

Maybe someone can shed some light on this for me but does Chrysler state anywhere in the owners manual or warranty book that the fuel must meet a certain cleanliness, quality, etc? I don't remember reading it on my '03 but I do remember reading levels of lubrication for all the different lube oils for the truck. I'm sure they have a loophole in there that says something like 'of reasonable quality' or some b. s. like that. That leaves it up to the discretion of the dealer.



I would think that regardless of what the fuel quality is, as long as the above is not called out, and as long as all of the factory pieces of the fuel system have been maintained as agreed upon in the maintenance schedule(filter changes etc. ), that they would have no valid excuse for denying the claim.



Of course at this point all of our opinions are moot because the dealer has denied the claim and any pushing you do will just cause future problems for you should you decide to try using that dealer for anything else.



That sucks, I'm sorry to hear that. If it isn't blacked in the computer maybe you can get another dealer to provide better service.



Jeff

 

[Bob4x4]

Fuel contamination has never been a warrantable repair. On the 3rd gens they require all the hi side (Ip, connector tubes, and injectors)to be replaced once there is proof of contamination anywhere in the high pressure side.

In this case it does sound a bit fishy

 

[HBarlow]

Can anyone explain how contaminated fuel could damage a transfer pump?

The original poster provided very little information and his signature doesn't even provide the year and model of his truck.

The OP stated that his dealer showed him the sample and told him it was contaminated fuel and offered to replace the transfer pump at owner's expense. He apparently declined.

The purchase price of a new truck doesn't mean squat. What matters is what is spelled out in the warranty. The items covered and the length of the warranty are spelled out very clearly and the owner's manuals do contain language regarding fuel use.

I don't remember the specific language but I think clean #2 or #1 winter blend fuel is specified, no more than 5% bio-diesel, and no additives are allowed on ISB6. 7s. All other years have stated no fuel additives are required or recommended.

In eight years as a TDR member I do not recall ever seeing a post regarding a claim that a Dodge dealer improperly denied a warranty claim on a transfer pump or, for that matter, any fuel system component when the reason was fuel contamination. If it were common I think we'd have seen it on TDR.

I have read several posts over the years where a member including, if I remember correctly, Steve St. Laurent reporting he had filled his tank with a load of bad fuel. He reported no problems as a result of the contaminated fuel. I had a fellow transporter friend who had a kid fuel station attendant mistakenly fill his tank with gasoline and he drove it several miles before he realized it was running very badly. He had the tank pumped out, refueled with diesel, and suffered no damage that has showed up.

I have seen lots of angry posts here that claimed their dealer had voided their warranty unfairly but the facts revealed their trucks were discovered to be modified.

If I had a dealer deny a fuel system problem warranty claim because they claimed contaminated fuel, I would not leave without a sample of the alleged contaminated fuel.

I eight years of Dodge Cummins ownership ('01, '06, '08) totaling 600,000 miles of service, I have had two warranty claims that I can remember. The first transfer pump and the oil pressure sender on my '01 failed and were replaced under warranty.

The dealer I've bought my Dodges from has always treated me very well.

I suspect there is more to this story than the OP reported. He seemed more interested in expressing his dissatisfaction or telling an emotional story than actually reporting facts and details.

 

[Trashdawg]

The pre screen on the in tank lift pump can collect debris like rust flakes or dirt I have even seen hay dust. The screen can be clean and issue resloved.

 

[rob10858]

okay, lets keep going. ive driven 92 04 06 and now an 07. im not a mechanical type of person, hence my membership to tdr for nine years. i just tow with what brung me as we say in virginia. my only questions to you guys that know a lot more than me is simple. why did the fuel filter not give me fits if the fuel was so bad? second, shoudnt the low fuel pressure code have presented itself somewhere down the line? how could i have thought of asking for a sample of the fuel i was shown help me at the time? i had a tankful on the way home, and was still in it at the time of the pump change. the pump is in a box, in our shop, but the damage is done for me, although our excellent local mechanic did the change for less than 450, the trust is gone. the reason for this post wasnt intended to be a "rant" but a warning to fellow owners of the 6. 7. love the motor, love the truck, hate being treated as if i fell of the turnip wagon.

 

[grasmo]

Have dealership give you a letter stating that you had suffered the damage from contaminated fuel, that they performed an analysis on, and have the filling station pay for the repairs ,if you buy from the same station or have a reciept, I'll bet you they took a guess at your fuel. I also bet you they will not give you a letter stating their claims of contaminated fuel. Also ask for the name of the company that performed the fuel analysis.

 

[DDouglas]

I have a friend who buys his fuel the same place I buy mine and I have a 03 5. 9 ctd 2500 4x4 ,and he has a 2008 6. 7 3500 4x4, we both keep a log book on oils changes and fuel filter changes , matters of fact we both change the fuel filter and oil at the same time, last week his truck started to have injector problems at 32,000 miles,he took in to the dealership and they said they pulled a sample of fuel and said it looked contaminated, and said they would not cover it under warranty. I had him bring it straight to my shop and we pulled the fuel filter and the fuel and the filter looked great no discolored fuel or filter . and get this they quoted him 9,000. 00 dollars to repair the truck. . has the world gone mad? so I told him to take it to a dealership where I have a friend work ,he pulled my friends truck vin up and it has been red flagged, my friend at this dealership said they cant do anything about it until chrysler takes the red flag off , I had him even check the fuel and he said it looked good. this is the 6th ctd my friend has owned and now he said after the way dodge has treated him on this warranty it will be his last.

 

[HBarlow]

What "injector problems" did your friend have? How do you know they were "injector problems?" Has his truck had a magic black box installed? Does he use any type of fuel additive?

I'm sure your friend will have much better luck with reliability and warranty issues if he buys a Government Motors truck w/Isuzu engine after GM introduces the new 2010 emissions standards. Or a Furd when they begin offering their own new inhouse V8 diesel.

 

[JSoard]

I have personally drained eight gallons of water out of a fuel tank on an 07 with 2000 miles on it I have also drained 30 gallons of what appears to be dark brown diesel fuel out of an 04 I have drained 34 gallons of black diesel fuel out of an 06 I do try to help all I can but I don't see where this is Chrysler's or Cummins problem I have also warrantied an engine with Chryslers help due to another dealer blaming the fuel which was not the case. I pull alot of fuel tanks and trust me fuel contamination does exist.

 

[grasmo]

Fuel contamination does exist and it can ruin things. But . . if a dealership tells me they are not paying for a warranty claim because of contaminated fuel I am sure interested in what it was, and who did the analysis and what their qualifications are. I understand sometimes people are given old fuel tanks and the fuel thats in them and use it not knowing what they had in them or if they were contaminated, and that can cause trouble,I had a dealer tell me I had contaminated fuel in my truck and I asked him for a letter stating the name and qualifications of who tested it and their whole sory changed very quickly to ... well it could have been. So... if someone does not want to put something in writing to document what was said and who said it it really doesn't mean much and it keeps people honest.