Bad Injectors/Re-flash

[BBailey]

I have a 04. 5 600 that was getting poor mileage last summer/fall. In October, I had it re-flashed hoping that would help and it did somewhat. When the weather got cold the truck started in with the white smoke when started after sitting overnight. I put up with it for a while because I did not want to leave my truck at the dealer. About two weeks ago I noticed that the front pinion seal was leaking so I took it in to be fixed & told them that about the smoke & shaking at cold-soak start up and taking 10-12 miles to come up to full temp. Of course they left it inside overnight and could not get it to "duplicate the problem". The dealer reflashed it again with the same TSB & enabled the high idle through the cruise control and said it was fixed. When I found out that it was not fixed & asked what else the problem could be they looked at it again and after several conversations with engineers & 2 days told me that all six injectors were bad but they would only replace three of them in cylinders 1,2 & 6 and that would "probably not completely fix the problem". I told them that since all six were bad that I did not want the truck back until it had six new injectors. They were somehow able to get six injectors (2 sets of 3). I have not gotten the truck back yet but I am wondering what I'm going to have when I get it back. I hope I will finally after 3 trips to the dealer have a truck that runs properly but I don't know.

 

[Coolslice]

Mine does the same thing. I have had the reflash, but mine will smoke and shake in the morning after sitting over night. I don't really think there is a problem because my mileage is fine and it won't smoke and shake if it has been plugged in.

 

[BBailey]

I hope it will be fine but I'm gonna be mad if it still does the same thing with new injectors and they have had it for a week. The few other HPCR's I have been around all fire up & run smooth as glass from the get-go. It also only has to be below 40 degrees for it to happen. The truck is also bone stock and it was looking like a pro-stock pulling tractor. Any chance of a negative impact on the CAT because of all the junk going through it?

 

[vagabond1]

Have you reviewed the TSB 18-037-04 Warning. I think you should.
On the injector's fouling, a small addition of Marvel Mystery Oil to the diesel fuel could help. Ratio of 1 ounce to 5 gallons seem to work for me. The engine never knows that it is burning it.

 

[BBailey]

It has been flashed with the TSB twice now & the injectors are gonna be new. I think the injectors have been bad all along & that was the problem to start with. My question is what the combination of the TSB & the injectors is going to do. Fix the problem I hope. There are a lot of bad injectors out there that they are trying to fix with the TSB. These injectors are a restricted part for warranty purposes. Why is that? I'm told it takes an act of god to get more than one! Why is that? I'm guessing that somebody somewhere knows that there is a quality control problem with these parts. Why don't they (Dodge/Cummins) want to stand behind them & fix them before they start causing some real damage $$$$$$$$. I've read enough posts to know that my truck is not an anomoly; yet it took 3 trips to the dealer to finally find out what the problem was. Can the original ECM program be put back? Do I want it back? Is this going to be the magic combination?

 

[thejeepdude]

I think you'll be happy once the injectors are replaced. I wouldn't worry about the flash... you can't undo it anyways. Let us know once happens when you get your truck back!

 

[PJ]

Have you reviewed the TSB 18-037-04 Warning. I think you should.
On the injector's fouling, a small addition of Marvel Mystery Oil to the diesel fuel could help. Ratio of 1 ounce to 5 gallons seem to work for me. The engine never knows that it is burning it.

That thread has been beat to death. . ALL 600's smoke!

 

[LightmanE300]

Mine does the same thing. I have had the reflash, but mine will smoke and shake in the morning after sitting over night. I don't really think there is a problem because my mileage is fine and it won't smoke and shake if it has been plugged in.

I would disagree - I don't think your truck should shake in the morning ever. It doesn't get that cold in KY, and the truck should start fine below 0 without being plugged in. I've started mine at -5 after having it parked for 3 days and while a little knockier, still no smoke or shaking. I have heard the 600's smoke more, but still... if it's truly 'shaking' something may be up.

 

[Coolslice]

I would disagree - I don't think your truck should shake in the morning ever. It doesn't get that cold in KY, and the truck should start fine below 0 without being plugged in. I've started mine at -5 after having it parked for 3 days and while a little knockier, still no smoke or shaking. I have heard the 600's smoke more, but still... if it's truly 'shaking' something may be up.

Well maybe, but it starts fine it just puffs for 2 or 3 seconds, the same with the shaking. I was told that it does that its because the ECM adjusts the timing on a cold start up. That seemed odd to me , but then again the ECM knows what the outside temp is and how long it has been since the truck was started. I could be totally wrong, but I think too many people are quick to blame the injectors for everything.

At my old work place we had 15 trucks with the cummins 5. 9 in them, they all would smoke and shake at start up on cold mornings. I personally think if my injectors were bad, I would notice it at other times beside the first 5 seconds in the morning. Keep in mind that I have the TST also which further adjusts the timing. I will have my injectors checked, if they are bad I really don't think I would want to turn around and put the same ones back in, I'm going aftermarket if possible.

 

[RPotter]

Lows where I live in WA state have been in the 40's, but I have no smoke or shake ever. I usually plug in if temps go below 40, if possible. I have been in Idaho quite a bit over the last 6 months, with lows being in the 20's, and still no shake, and no smoke. Maybe I'm one of the lucky ones, but have never had these issues with mine. And I have not been where I could plug in for the most part. I do have to agree, however, when the block heater is utilized, it does warm up quicker. If I'm not plugged in, it will take 10 - 12 miles to totally warm up. I don't think that is unusual from what I have read here on TDR.

 

[Mopar4u]

I started getting smoke at start up in Dec. and kept geeting worse until it started missing. Took in and they replaced no. 5 injector. When I picked it up 2 days later it still smoked, dealer told me it was carboned up. Drove it home and the next morning it let out 2 load pops. Opened hood found no. 3 and 6 exhaust wet, returned to dealer informing them of wet exhaust. They replaced no. 1 injector and told me no. 6 was at 85%. Star was supposed to overnight another injector but it never showed. this is 3-2-05. leaving for TX on 3-4-05 hope they get it together.

 

[sag2]

BBailey asked this.

These injectors are a restricted part for warranty purposes. Why is that? I'm told it takes an act of god to get more than one! Why is that? I'm guessing that somebody somewhere knows that there is a quality control problem with these parts

.





The injectors, PN 5086894AA cost $360. 00 each net. The dealers get a 40% markup on warranty parts, so the cost to DC is $504. 00 each. Now a few trucks had all six replaced, but most are repaired with one or two. If DC let the dealers order anything they wanted, they would skip the diagnosis (because capping the injectors to test them is time consuming) and just order a set of six for every truck. That is $3024. 00 per truck plus labor to replace the injectors.

That is the reason they are restricted. If you were paying for them, you would do exactly the same thing.

 

[Posm]

I have a good relationship with my dealer. They sell all three brands and maintain a separate diesel shop from the regular "car". shop. They have one tech that does nothing but injectors. Most of his time is spent replacing injectors on the "old" LB version of the Duramax. He has only replaced one set of Dodge injectors. He said that it was water damage. He claimed that Dodge would not replace a whole set of injectors. In my humble opinion, it would be nearly impossible to get a set of bad injectors from the factory. They might mess up on or two from human error or mis-assemble. If they set up a machining process wrong, it would mess up the entire run of injectors and it would/should be caught by QC.

Last time is was in, he was replacing a set of injectors on a new LAY Duramax. He said that it ingested a tank full of gasoline. He said that he has never had a customer put a tank of gas in their diesel pick-up. Every single one had the gas put in by their Wife/Neighbor/Son/Daughter/Dog.

 

[Coolslice]

I talked to the tech yesterday and he said if I wanted my injectors tested, they would have to ship them out. I guess I will just wait until I really suspect a problem before before it comes to that.

 

[BBailey]

Sorry to tell you that since the new injectors this one does not! It fires up & runs very smooth from the get go. There seem to be a lot of bad injectors in the early 04. 5 HO's.

 

[BBailey]

I was told after diagnosis that all six were bad & needed replaced. That was after 3 days to testing/diagnosis with STAR consultation. I was also told by the tech that with just doing the three that the problem "would probably not be fixed".

 

[BBailey]

Since the new injectors have been in there have been nights down into the low teens and there has been NO smoke or shake. The overall driveability is up, the jury is still out on fuel consumption. Three out of six of the old injectors were wet,black & nasty. The other 3 were not as bad but still did not look good for a stock truck with 21K on it. All you have to do is talk to anyone that has worked on or driven Cummins engines (big or small) in the last 20 + years & they will tell you that problems with stock injectors are not uncommon. I think Cummins builds a heckuva engine but I also know they are not perfect (no brand is).