Bad Luck, Shop, need Suspension Advice

[cowboysgottacummins]

Happy New Year!



I started the new year out by ramming my cummins into a concrete pole base. Point of impact, was the driver's side front wheel. Still not sure quite how I managed this. There is no body damage, but the truck was disabled by a broken adjustment sleeve on the steering drag link. The sleeve snapped in half.



Got the truck towed and sleeve replaced, called around got prices from $300-$1600 I went with the$300 which included an alignment.



Shop says all is good, but they aligned it the best they could given the fact that I have a bad ball joint. They said the ball joint is just normal wear and tear and not likely any damage from the impact. I knew the truck was going to need ball joints soon so not terribly alarming. I told them I would hold off for now, this was not a shop I was familiar with.



So I Get the truck back and head down the road and its not aligned. Significant right hand pull and steering wheel is clocked about 20% off to the right. Feeling a bit hosed on an the alignment. So I Call the shop back and they wont do anything until I cough of $1,000 for ball joints. If the ball joint was "So bad" why did they even try to align it, why didn't they call me while they were working on it to say, we can't align it or you've got a blown ball joint? Of course they didn't tell me anything about needing a ball joint until after I showed up asking if the alignment turned up any other potential issues.



Now which ball joints, hate to spend an extra $300-500 on ball joints for Dyna or Carli only to find out something else (steering box, or tie rods etc also have to be replaced. Are Moogs that unreliable. The mechanics I am talking too act like you should easily get 100k out of well maintained greasable moog ball joints. About the same as I have read I would get from Dyna? THoughts? I see several other posts on the issue and lots of happy folks, but not a lot of feedback on folks at or over 100k on carli and/or dyna.



Worth it or Not?

 

[George Cameron]

Could hitting the concrete base have tweaked the axle housing? Just bringing the toe back into spec should have been all that was necessary if the damage was truly just a broken sleeve. Steering gear would not cause pull, but cross camber/caster issues sure would.

 

[jhenderson]

If it was the drag link sleeve, all it does is center the steering wheel. Toe is adjustedbetween the tie rods. The drag link attaches to the tie rod near the pass side. The pull must be caused by something else. They are a damn poor shop if they replaced the drag link sleeve, charged for an alignment, and couldn't manage to center the steering wheel. By the way, that sleeve costs about $40, and takes about 20 minutes to replace.

 

[rscurtis]

Don't rule out the possibility that you could've bent the sector shaft. Drag link adjustment will correct that, but then you won't be in the center of the steering box.



If the truck was driving OK with the ball joints before the accident, then chances are they're not the problem.

 

[cowboysgottacummins]

Indeed the truck drove fine before the accident. As to the cost, I knew I was getting hosed! Could have got the part online for $22, these clowns charged me $78 for the part and $146 to install it. I would have done it, but I was stranded, had no tools and was an hour and half from home. So I took the cheapest of the screwings. The other shops, including dodge parts counter were telling me you can no longer buy the sleeve and that I needed to pay $650 for a complete new drag link, sleeve, damper, pitman arm and nuts. I knew that was crap.

The shop I used when I called back about the pull and the steering wheel tried to blame it all on the ball joint and urged me to bring it back for the bargain price of $1,000 to have that fixed. I told them it would be a cold day in hell before they laid hand on my truck again. I Know the sleeve is what centers the wheel, but as has been stated the pull must be something else.

I knew the ball joints were starting to show wear, but the worst was on the passenger side. This guy is telling me the driverside is "blown out" which I would say is attributable to the accident, or that the play he was getting is the wheel bearing or something else potentially. I hit that concrete at 15-20mph strait into the tire, it compressed my 285 tall tire flat into the rim, it was a substantial impact. Which is why I was surprised that only that sleeve would be broken.

 

[Nyoest]

I'm confused as to your issue. Are you mad at the shop because of a poor job or at yourself for not fixing it correctly?

There is absolutely no way an alignment can be done with marginal ball joints, period.

Maybe next you spear a concrete pillar just get it towed all the way home.

 

[HBarlow]

Auto repair jobs performed by the lowest bidder, like most other things in life, often turn out to be the most expensive choice.

 

[cowboysgottacummins]

I wasn't presented with the option or information of a needed fix on the ball joints at the time of service. I was called told the truck was done. I asked if they aligned it, they said yes, they charged $76 for an alignment. They said it would need ball joints in the near future. So yes I am a bit mad that they would even align it if the ball joints were bad. As to the need to replace them, now that I am aware they will be replaced, hence the ultimate question in my original post about Carli vs Dynatrac. So yes I am frustrated at poor service. I told them to assess the damage and fix what needed to be fixed. Instead I got to drive with a half fixed truck. But certainly i was in better shape than when the truck arrived at the shop.

they were the lowest because they estimated the parts that were broken, and didn't try to insist on replace everything involved in the front end over the phone before even seeing the truck; as most suggested over the phone when they learned I had hit a concrete pole. "oh yeah that gonna be pricy, bring'er on in here we'll get'er done. " Your gonna need one of everything.

Thanks to the others on tips, sector shaft and axle housing. When I tear into the ball joints (myself) we will see what we find. Still weighing the value of Dynatrac over Moog. In the meantime I will jack the truck up and check the ball joint play myself. It might get to 40 degrees today. Much better than the 14deg we had the past few days.

 

[HBarlow]

Happy New Year!

I started the new year out by ramming my cummins into a concrete pole base. Point of impact, was the driver's side front wheel. Still not sure quite how I managed this. There is no body damage, but the truck was disabled by a broken adjustment sleeve on the steering drag link. The sleeve snapped in half.

Got the truck towed and sleeve replaced, called around got prices from $300-$1600 I went with the$300 which included an alignment.

Shop says all is good, but they aligned it the best they could given the fact that I have a bad ball joint. They said the ball joint is just normal wear and tear and not likely any damage from the impact. I knew the truck was going to need ball joints soon so not terribly alarming. I told them I would hold off for now, this was not a shop I was familiar with.

So I Get the truck back and head down the road and its not aligned. Significant right hand pull and steering wheel is clocked about 20% off to the right. Feeling a bit hosed on an the alignment. So I Call the shop back and they wont do anything until I cough of $1,000 for ball joints. If the ball joint was "So bad" why did they even try to align it, why didn't they call me while they were working on it to say, we can't align it or you've got a blown ball joint? Of course they didn't tell me anything about needing a ball joint until after I showed up asking if the alignment turned up any other potential issues.

Now which ball joints, hate to spend an extra $300-500 on ball joints for Dyna or Carli only to find out something else (steering box, or tie rods etc also have to be replaced. Are Moogs that unreliable. The mechanics I am talking too act like you should easily get 100k out of well maintained greasable moog ball joints. About the same as I have read I would get from Dyna? THoughts? I see several other posts on the issue and lots of happy folks, but not a lot of feedback on folks at or over 100k on carli and/or dyna.

Worth it or Not?

How can you blame the shop?

 

[cowboysgottacummins]

To settle the blame issue and move on to the ultimate question at hand. I blame no one but myself for hitting the concrete pole. I blame no one for the fact that the ball joints need to be replaced. My issue with the shop, as stated above was only poor service in alleging to have done an alignment, when or if it was clear one could not be done, even further for charging me for an alignment which was clearly not done. For sloppy workmanship in failure to recenter the steering wheel when installing the new sleeve (which sets steering wheel position).

All other blame rest solely upon me for hitting the concrete pole and or not agreeing to give my truck back to them a second time after I drove the hour and a half to pick it up. As stated in my original post, Ultimately yes I need to put in ball joints. Which brings me back to the other question in my original post. hoping for some ball joint guidance as it relates to the potential that there are still lingering other issues to be fixed and considering I don't have an unlimited budget and there seems to be a divergence of opinion on Moog price range product to the Dyna and Carli price range. With mechanics I've talked to indicating anything more than serviceable moogs are a waste of money to the user world here and elsewhere supporting the quality and longevity of Dynatrac and carli being a better long term investment, but I haven't read much from folks with the higher cost ball joints that have 100k or more on them to attest to the longevity.


Ultimately the shop put me back on the road, in fairly short order 24hrs, for least amount of screwing. I wont go back there but they weren't intended to be the focus of the post, rather part of a history with a frustrating aside or another example of continued poor service in our society at large. That is my issue, i am beyond it and ready to proceed with new ball joints and avoid concrete poles for the foreseeable future. lol

 

[ENafziger]

If you're going to keep the truck for more than the next year or two, I'd spring for the Carlis and do it yourself. I did a pretty extensive write-up on it, and it's not a bad project.

Have you updated to the '08. 5+ steering already? If not, it may not be a bad time to justify that upgrade as well.

--Eric

 

[rscurtis]

Before you change any parts, take it to an alignment shop and have them check the caster angle on each wheel. If they're signigicantly different, you could have a bent axle housing. No sense in doing all that work to find out something is bent after you're done.

 

[jhenderson]

Harvey, I have replaced the drag link in my truck twice in 275,000 miles. I did it in my driveway. It takes all of 5 minutes to be sure the steering wheel is centered. As a young man, I worked in a front end and frame shop before trading the pit for the woods. Any shop that claims to have aligned a front end, but did not center the wheel, or take the truck for a test drive should be ashamed of themselves. It's all part of the service. The test drive would show up both problems. It's obvious that a test drive wasn't done , because they said the truck was done, and only discussed the problem when a complaint was lodged.