Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Bad Oil Test /Too Much Chromium

[Josparkz]

I just got my latest oil analysis back today , and it did not look good.

The following items significantly increased , in ppm :

Aluminum - went up to 11 from an average of 2

Chrome - went up to 54 from an average of 1. 4

Iron - Up to 41 from an average of 13. 6

Silicone--Up to 33 from an average of 1. 8

So , needless to say , I am a little concerned about what happened to my really good running engine .

Something definitely happened in the last 7300 miles.

There are a few things that I have changed in that period.

1) Went to a slightly lighter oil for the winter

2) Switched to AFE Mega Cannon w/prefilter

3) Changed to heavier valve springs.

4) Changed the head gasket

5) Advanced the timing

6) Installed 4k GSK

7) Installed larger fuel plate

There is a possibility that I was getting dirt in through , perhaps , a leaky "filter minder" grommet . That would explain some of the readings.

But I an stumped by the chromium . What has a lot of chromium inside the engine ?

Thanks

 

[illflem]

I'm thinking your higher readings are only due to the fact that you've been inside your engine quite a bit since the last time possibly introducing contamination especally if the head gasket you replaced was blown. Don't worry till the next test.

Chromium is normally associated with piston rings. High levels can be caused by dirt coming through the air intake or broken rings.

 

[Futures1]

Another 2 cents

Hi josparkz; Did you advance the timing to Cummins specs or someone elses ?? I can't remember where I saw the article about performance procedures for the Cummins, but I am quite sure that advancing the timing was not suggested. The writer of the article seemed quite specific about that, suggested there is no horsepower to be gained by advancing the timing in these engines ?? Maybe someone else can remember the article and lead you to it... Over the years I have seen many engines damaged by improper timing.

 

[Berrigan]

Dirt from leaky intake system or dirt from service yep yep.



I had a first gen. Went campin. A guy at camp wanted to see my motor. I popped the hood. Noticed the intake hose from the air filter to the turbo had fallen off. It was on and intact a hundred miles before when I left my house. So I put it back on and tightened the clamp real tight.



At the next oil change my lab results were like yours. Everything jumped sky high. The next change 6 k latter they were almost normal. Them the change after that they were normal again.



Just keep changing the oil and testing.

 

[Josparkz]

Originally posted by illflem

I'm thinking your higher readings are only due to the fact that you've been inside your engine quite a bit since the last time possibly introducing contamination especally if the head gasket you replaced was blown. Don't worry till the next test.

Chromium is normally associated with piston rings. High levels can be caused by dirt coming through the air intake or broken rings.

A broken ring would be a bad deal . How would one check for that ?

Thanks

 

[Josparkz]

Re: Another 2 cents

Originally posted by Futures1

Hi josparkz; Did you advance the timing to Cummins specs or someone elses ?? ... Over the years I have seen many engines damaged by improper timing.

It was advanced to 16 degrees , (from 14) , mostly to reduce egt's.

What kind of engine damage are you talking about ?

Thanks

 

[Josparkz]

Just keep changing the oil and testing. [/B][/QUOTE]



Thats about all I can do for now . I changed back to the 15w40 last night and I'll sample again in 1000 miles.

Thanks.

Joe

 

[Futures1]

Advanced Timing cont'd

Hi again Josparkz;



I still can't find the article i was referring to about timing, but there is a good thread by Power Wagon which he did on 02-21-01. It is too long to paste here, and I don't know how to create a link to it. But if you search his name, the article should come up as one of his. He explains the problems brought on by both over advanced and over retarded timing.



I will continue to search out the other article I was looking for. It covers the proper procedure for modifying the Cummins and mentions a few times that their is nothing to be gained by advancing the timing beyond specs in most cases !! Of course there is always the exception to the rule!!

In working with high performance sleds, bikes, etc. . ( I know that's not exactly the same as the diesels), but when an engine problem occurred (broken or scored piston, rings, rods, etc. ) it most often was the result of 1/ over advanced timing 2/ too lean on fuel 3/ lack of proper cooling or 4/ contamination. The comment from the customer was usually "It was running great just before it stopped"



I don't mean to cause you concern or doubt if you have received your info from a reliable source and applied it correctly. It's just when someone mentions advancing the timing to me, it gets me to wondering. I hope that your next test comes out fine !!

 

[Crash_AF]

Here's the article

The article you are thinking of is here:

http://www.dieselinjection.net/articles.html



It's 78 Pages... . enjoy



Later,

Joe

 

[Deezul1]

With these engines mostly advanced timing is to help control EGTs and the advance is a small amount for most of us, about 1 or 2 degrees. The guys that love pulling heads for gasket changes are another story but they also go real fast.

 

[CumminsPower98]

15. 5-16º is what most here like to run for moderate power levels and every day use. Reduced egt's is what many are mentioning but the other big thing is fuel mileage gains. I personally run 16º and when I advanced to this from 13. 25º I gained 1. 5-2 mpg. I also got smoother idling and better top end performance.



I agree with the others about your numbers being messed up by having the engine open.

 

[Midnite]

Futures1, if you're talking about the article that Crash_AF posted a link to, the author is talking about the NTC and other big Cummins engines, not the 6bt.



Cummins actually has different injection pump timing specs which vary according to application. 16 degrees advance is very, very common here. What you have to keep in mind is that Dodge needed to go with a somewhat retarded timing in order to comply with exhaust emissions restrictions (retarding the timing can reduce NOx emissions).



Mike

 

[Deezul1]

Just a thought on the high chromium reading, most tools have chrome plating and the readings are in parts per million so it wouldnt take much to raise the readings. Also silicone readings are affected by gasket sealants too.

 

[Josparkz]

Thank you all for your replies . I'll have to hurry up and get 1000 miles on the new oil for sampling .

 

[Futures1]

Injection Pump Timing;

Hey Midnite,

No I was not aware of the different injection pump timing specs... I would be interested in those for my own vehicle - Dodge Ram 2500 CTD !! Do you know where they can be found ??



Thanks for the additional info.



Dick S.

 

[Josparkz]

Re: Injection Pump Timing;

Originally posted by Futures1

Hey Midnite,

No I was not aware of the different injection pump timing specs... I would be interested in those for my own vehicle - Dodge Ram 2500 CTD !! Do you know where they can be found ??



Thanks for the additional info.



Dick S.

Try this :



http://www.piersdiesel.com/P7100Timing.htm

 

[Futures1]

Thanks for the link

Hey JoSparks (nice handle for an electrician ), If I'm reading this correctly, in the FAQ section, they indicate that it is ok to advance the timing to approx. 1 degree beyond spec. , but as much as 2 degrees is frowned upon for various reasons. I agree with that, it is quite specific and makes good sense to me. What do you suspect might occur at 2 or more degrees of advance ??



Just kidding, thank you very much for the help !!



Dick S.

 

[Futures1]

Thanks Joe;

Hey Crash_AF... That is the article I was referring to !! http://www.dieselinjection.net/articles.html

I have so many links in my bookmarks that I can't fine what I want when I want it. Guess I'll copy the article to file !!



Thanks again my friend, and thanks to all of you Air Force guys for what you do for us and our loved ones !! If you are ever through Kingston, NH , we have a spare bedroom.

Dick S.

 

[Futures1]

It's about timing )

A thought. . I just went out to take a look at the plate on the left front my Cummins engine. On it is marked "timing" 13. 5 !! I suspect that this would be the starting point for me if I were to advance my timing ??? If so, I would probably want to advance my engine no further than 14. 5 or perhaps 15 degrees.



Open for comments about this theory !!



Mine is a stock Ram 2500 2wd 5 spd except for Exhaust.



Thanks, Dick S.