Competition BAll Bearing turbo for Cummins 5.9

[cmonroe]

Well guys I was in at ATS this morning and I saw a ball bearing turbo and its own special manifold (which was an ATS 3 piece)setup for a Cummins 5. 9. You might want to check it out of the ATS forums. I didn't have long to play with it but holly crap there was zero resistance on the shaft. My first thought was how fast this thing should spool-up. Check it out.







http://forums.atsdiesel.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69

 

[TxDieselKid]

Is this turbo an ATS - the transmission guys, or ATS - the exhaust manifold guys?



Looks impressive!!!



Andrew

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Theory always was that a bushing type bearing was best in extremely high RPM applications such as turbos in terms of load carrying ability and long life - wonder what has happened to change that?

 

[dramer]

Ball Bearing Turbo

The turbo charger for the Ford application is being offered from Advanced Turbo Systems (Utah); ATS Diesel Performance (Colorado) is working on the Cummins application and Duramax at this point. ATS Diesel Performance (Colorado) is working on all three applications. We will distribute the Ford Ball bearing turbo from Advanced Turbo Systems (Utah). This line of turbo chargers is made by Garrett and is being made available for anyone that wants it. We have been working on the designs for all applications.



Don Ramer

 

[TxDieselKid]

Re: Ball Bearing Turbo

Originally posted by dramer

The turbo charger for the Ford application is being offered from Advanced Turbo Systems (Utah); ATS Diesel Performance (Colorado) is working on the Cummins application and Duramax at this point. ATS Diesel Performance (Colorado) is working on all three applications. We will distribute the Ford Ball bearing turbo from Advanced Turbo Systems (Utah). This line of turbo chargers is made by Garrett and is being made available for anyone that wants it. We have been working on the designs for all applications.



Don Ramer

Ok, Thanks for clearing that up Don, the Ford and Dodge thing is where I got lost, but you know how it goes with dealing with this stuff all day long. #ad




Andrew

 

[JHansen]

Piers was playing with ball-bearing Garretts 6 months ago..... not sure how he made out but the fact that you haven't heard anything from him about them would lead me to believe they didn't measure up to his standards... .

 

[Jim Fulmer]

1 1/2 times the price of my Twins... . ouch! Guess you have to pay to have the cool stuff.

 

[Diesel Freak]

Pictures I want Pictures!



what is the inducer diameter and exducer diameter of compressor wheel?



What is the turbine major diameter and exducer diameter? what is the housing A/R?



just trying to see how this compares to an HX40

 

[HoleshotHolset]

There's nothing new about ceramic dual ball-bearing turbos, folks... .



Precision Turbo 'n Engine has been doing them for years on the turbo gassers. They offer turbos to support 1200hp for singles or 2000+hp for twins... .



I've driven a few cars with them and they spool NICE!



Matt

 

[StakeMan]

Yep, gassers have had them for a while.



Never heard of one that could handle a diesel before.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

There has been some discussion that the added soot in the diesel engine oil might foul the ceramic ball bearings... .



I'm outta here... . Ireland here I come!



Matt

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I know some of the Camaro and Mustang crowd were using the BB turbos - and don't doubt their advantages in racing scenarios - but I plan to get the full million miles outta my Cummins - how do the BB turbos shake out on long-term DURABILITY compared to the stockers?

 

[Hammer]

A roller bearing turbo for a 5. 9 you say.....

This is no secret and is and has already been done by a few so ATS is no the first to begin testing on them,but,may be the first to market them. The is a major manuacturer out there who has had 3(I think this is a correct number,but,I'll check)roller turbos and their specially designed better flowing exhaust manifolds on 2 of their house trucks and one private individuals. They were shelved for production at the time due to costs of the manifolds(searching for a more cost effective production of them) and the company wanting to wait till a later date as to make them not out of reach price wise for the public and causing them to invest a large sum of money to which they may not recoup. So,now its a wait and see deal,a call recently to my contact has told me they will be coming sometime this year,when he would not confirm.



One other one I do know about is one on a mildly tuned 12valve. It was done by a gentleman who does not run in diesel circles and was his first one. I know the gentleman who has it and it now has over 35,000 miles of daily street abuse and has and does perform flawlessly.



It will be interesting to see what becomes of the roller parade and how it will effect the turbo market and those companies who now do custom turbos for our trucks. Longevity,who knows,just like the hybrids were,bolt them on,abuse them,break them upgrade them and move on to a better product. Same game,different product... ... ..... Andy

 

[Diesel Freak]

Originally posted by Hammer

The is a major manuacturer out there who has had 3(I think this is a correct number,but,I'll check)roller turbos and their specially designed better flowing exhaust manifolds on 2 of their house trucks and one private individuals. They were shelved for production at the time due to costs of the manifolds(searching for a more cost effective production of them) and the company wanting to wait till a later date as to make them not out of reach price wise for the public and causing them to invest a large sum of money to which they may not recoup. So,now its a wait and see deal,a call recently to my contact has told me they will be coming sometime this year,when he would not confirm.

I believe this was Turbonetics. They looked into this back in early 2000 then for some reason they shelved the project.

 

[R.E. Miller]

Turbonetics....ball bearings....ceramic that is.

Turbonetics does sell ball bearing turbos, they use the garrett assemblies, and offer models with ceramic ball bearings. Have tought about it, scared at asking the price



Russell

 

[Garry Verheyden]

I was talking to a person in a turbo wholesaler in British Columbia that gave a very well known Canadian diesel performance guy a ball bearing turbo a try. I heard he raced a guy in valet mode on the freeway and was not winning, so he turned off the valet switch and boom! It spooled really fast! Too fast, and he brought the tiny pieces of the $4000 turbo back in a box. I don't think he will be marketing these quite yet until they get the reliability problems fixed in high horsepower applications. He has about 575hp and runs #2 only. I'm sure you know who I'm talking about but won't mention his name because it's not my story to tell.

Garry

 

[T. Baker]

I don't think the ball bearing will last nearly as long or take any abuse like standard turbo bearings but time will tell.

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Garry Verheyden



I know that story also, made me run for cover.



Jim

 

[TxDieselKid]

First ball bearing turbos, next will be VGT turbos, oh wait, Dean, you'll already there aren't you.



Andrew

 

[CRoth - BD-Power]

According to Garrett, the ball bearing turbos should actually be a heck of a lot stronger than a conventional free floating type. This is mainly due to the fact that there is no thrust bearing in a ball bearing setup. Actually there is but it is actually in the bearing assembly itself.



Most of the ball bearing chargers produced by Garrett were actually water cooled, in fact this one is not. For a high heat application I'd rather have the water cooled version. This is not to say that this charger won't work, it does work on the Ford pretty well.



The compressor wheel will flow 70 lbs/min @ 40psi.