Band Adjuistment on a 48RE

[dPierce]

Like most of you on these forums, I like to do my own service work. I have a question about adjusting the bands on a 48RE trans.



The service schedule calls for the first fluid and filter change at 30K miles and adjusting the bands. Is it necessary to adjust the bands (especially the front) at every trans service?



Can someone with a service manual post the torque specs and number of back-out turns for the front and rear bands?



Finally, does anyone have a line on a better price for ATF+4 than getting it from DC at $8+ a quart?



Any guidance here would be greatly appreciated.



Pierce

 

[dPierce]

More Knowledgeable??

Geno's has the specs up to '02, no '03 yet. Anybody with a service manual out there?



Pierce

 

[DPKetchum]

I may be called on this but in four years in a D. C. dealer with two trans guys that had been their 4 years plus they NEVER found a ban out of adjustment. Only if the unit had a internal problem that was noticeable and had to come out and opened up. Recently I checked ban adjust on my 1993 W250 and it was way in specs. I'm retired now and have a 03 ad put this to trans tech at another dealer(10years there)doing all of the trans work and HE SMILED and said they are never out unless a internal failure has already occured!I commented that the maintance menu says ADJUST BANS. He said,same as other two techs told me<that it just sounded good on the menu that you can checked hundereds and never make a adjustment. I wanted to mention this for two years on this site just never did. So today I did!

 

[y-knot]

Stop Winning... is it really that much more work? Ypur allready changing the fluid and filter, so whats the big deal? Tighten the damn band adjustment bolt two 72 in/lbs, back it off 2 1/2 turns and your done. Probaly took longer to write this post then to make the adjustment. Must be nice if thats all you have to complain about?

 

[Prairie Dog]

y-knots rite, It's a very quick and easy adjustment for somebody that does their own wrenching and yes, they need it from time to time. The adjustment is so small to us it's not noticeable but it makes a difference to your transmission's life. Do the job rite, adjust the bands.

 

[Joe G.]

Have any of you even seen a transmission band from one of these late model torqueflite transmissions? The lining material is about 1/32" thick. The adjustment for for shift timing. That is the interval between when the band lets go and the clutches take hold or vice versa. It is not for wear. This is a real example of "if it's not broke, don't fix it". If the band is too tight you get a bind condition. If it is too loose you get a slip (a period when both the band and the clutches are not holding). As long as the shift is working right it's adjusted right and should be left alone. It's not a problem of saveing labor, but of not messing it up.

 

[DPKetchum]

Was told by all trans techs I dealt with to leave it alone. They said they only adjusted in a major overhaul. Not whining about the work or time involved just that its mentioned a lot and its not needed unless major overhaul performed. I read a lot of posts about this adjustment over the years and never added my two cents about it. Today when I read a ban adjust post again I thought I mentioned what I found out about adjusting bans years ago. It helped nothing,thats all. now on the older units with lots of miles increasing the line pressure some does improve shift and durability. I also knew when I posted this that I might get slapped a little but I investigated this adjustment several years ago and very knowledgeable trans guys told me the skinney on it. Only adjust on a overhaul. If its bad out enough to be noticable the trans is already BROKE and needs teardown. Thats all folks.

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Don't know for sure about the 48re's but I like Kondalay's method of using a 1/4 allen to check the front band with the pan is off, that's what I do, just check it and if it's good then press on.



Jim

 

[dPierce]

What about warranty?

O. K. , not trying to be overly paranoid about warranty, but here's my opinion. . it's a catch-22 situation... if I don't adjust the bands and end up with a trans problem down the line DC could blame it on a lack of adjustment. On the other hand, I could take it to the dealer every 30K miles for a trans service and get charged for a band adjustment that they probably will not perform.



I think I'll ask a couple of local trans guys what they think. In the mean time... . going back to my original question... could someone please post the procedure for a 48RE????



Someone mentioned above "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". On this subject I wonder how much I would be able to notice (or 95% of the other members here would notice) if my front band is gradually coming out of adjustment. I would assume it slowly gets looser as most wearable parts do. Typically these types of minor changes go unnoticed in the driver's seat, until it is so far out that it is causing problems.



Thanks for all the input guys... I continue to be surprised at the range of opinions on subjects like this, which seem as though they should be pretty black and white. I would have thought there would be more agreement or consensus on fairly mundane and routine maintenance issues.



Pierce

 

[y-knot]

I think the don't fix it if it an't broken theory stinks... . might as well stick your head is the sand. Thats the dumbest argument I ever heard of, if fuel is still running through the fuel filter, I guess we ott not change it, who cares if it has 50,000 miles on it, hey I can see my fan belt is getting those little crack, but it still works so i'll wait till i'm on the road and when it breaks i'll fix it when... . stupid, stupid. . I adjust what ever it is when it should be adjusted. Transmissions loose there adjustment so slowly, that you can't tell, untill after. Then you feel the firmer shifts, and say oh, I guess it did need adjusting. Preventive maintanence is just that, you fix something before it brakes.

 

[DPKetchum]

In 25 years in auto service depts that band adjust and steering box adjust amd check and all that little stuff to inspect at all of those mileages I"VE NEVER SEEN used against anybody in a warranty situation. The techs,service managers and factory DSM"S know nobody checks ban adjustment. In fact other then a few good trans techs the others I've ever known would'nt have a CLUE to how to adjust etc. The ones driving Dodge trucks I bet have never even thought about checking band adjust. Valve adjust were applicable yes. Trans bands no. in fact the only time I ever really heard it ever mentioned was on THIS site. Not in the shops. Thats why years ago I asked and was told it was a ONLY WHEN A OVERHAUL IS DONE. I'd never hear any one discuss brake fluid flush. In my mind its a lot more important then trans bands. I flush brake system yearly. Sorry to have even brought it up. Thats why I never did before. Its kinda like listening to MIKE the Mechanic on Sunday morning radio. Some things he says are just off the wall. Things no shop would ever check or do etc. In the maintenance menu it even states check exhaust bolts and hangers and water pump weep hole for blockage,nobody does that either. Back to the WARRANTY thing I can SEE a do it yourselfer at home saying after a trans failure " WELL I adjusted bans and serviced the trans" myself last week and maybe THAT being used against him quicker then the other way around. If you know what I mean.

 

[JWerkheiser]

I think almost everyone here has made some valid points.



I really enjoy reading varied opinions on these topics - makes it interesting and valuable. I would have to placecomments like "dumb" and "stupid" on the exception list, though. It's an extreme comparison to say that someone not adjusting bands every time they change the transmission filter is akin to running a fuel filter for 50,000 miles. Sorry, I just don't see the value in posts like that.

 

[dPierce]

As much as I appreciate the feedback and opinions, I didn't mean to start as argument or a pissin' match where people start to insult each other.



Can someone with a shop/service manual post the procedure for adjusting the bands on a 48RE? This info would be much appreciated.

 

[dPierce]

From Blue Chip Diesel

Dan, We have found from a lot of experience that these trannies need to be

adjusted on a regular basis. It seems to make the first and reverse band

last longer.

Hope this helps, Chip Fisher

 

[zstroken]

y-not you sure those are the correct specs?

From the factory they set the kickdown band accumulator to 72 inch lbs then back it off 17/8 turn. I believe the spec you quoted was for a 47RE for the v10

 

[brillmtb]

Is there a difference between what the dealer can do as a "flush" and what the average DIY person can do at home with respect to transmission fluid changes?



Can the torque coverter really be drained by either? Is there a drain plug in it?

 

[dPierce]

Do a Search.

Originally posted by brillmtb

Is there a difference between what the dealer can do as a "flush" and what the average DIY person can do at home with respect to transmission fluid changes?



Can the torque coverter really be drained by either? Is there a drain plug in it?

You will hear a wide variety of opinions on this subject from the extreme ends of the spectrum to everythig in between. Do multiple key word searches for the subject and you will find a ton of info. I spent about an hour one day just reading and learning.



My conclusion: I will be changing my fluid and filter and adjusting my bands every 25K miles. I read that you can loosen the valve body and get a lot more out than just dropping the pan alone and will be trying this at my first service. I never liked the flush service; now I've read that the detergent they use does not fully flush out and causes problems. I believe that normal good service with fresh fluid/filter introduced at regular intervals will be sufficient.



I don't believe there is a drain on the torque converter. I plan to install a trans pan drain plug from Geno's so that it's not such a messy job to drop the pan.



Good Luck!



Pierce

 

[DPKetchum]

I bet 90% of the ones I saw torn down. (3 to 6 a week)the most common failure was toque convertor and seals. Thats all type Chrysler auto transmissons. Front and rear wheel drive including diesels.

 

[DBVZ]

This is from my DC service manual, page 21-374 and 21-375 (2213 and 2214 0f 2895) For the 2003. 5 48re transmission.



Front Band: External, left side, above manual valve and throttle valve levers.



1. Raise vehicle.

2. Loosen band adjusting screw locknut, and back off 3-5 turns.

3. Tighten adjustment screw to 72 inch-pounds with an inch-pound torque wrench and a 3" extension, and Torx socket. CAUTION: If adaptor C-3705 is needed to reach the adjusting screw, tighten to only 47-50 inch pounds.

4. Back off front band adjusting screw 1-3/4 turns.

5. Hold adjusting screw in positon, and tighten locknut to 30 FOOT-pounds.

6. Lower vehicle.



Rear Band: Internal (looks obvious from the diagram)



1. Raise vehicle.

2. Remove transmission pan and drain fluid.

3. Loosen band adjusting screw 5 - 6 turns.

4. Tighten band adjusting screw to 72 inch pounds.

5. Back off the adjusting screw 3 turns.

6. Hold adjusting screw in place and tighten locking nut to 25 FOOT-pounds.

7. Positon new gasket on pan and install, tighten pan nuts to 13 FOOT-pounds.

8. Lower vehicle and fill with Mopar ATF +4.



I left out just a few words, but triple checked the numbers because I recognize how important this is to get right. I hope this helps.

 

[DPKetchum]

The flush system works great. Even have had slow in the a. m. to engage due to worn seals somewhat helped by a flush. Ones that the fluid is BLACK its the only way to go. Just changing 3 or 4 qts and the filter never even would lighten up the color on those/such as mail jeeps etc. Most big shops all have flush machines. Rather flush and change filter every 60 to 75 k even up to 100k is ok for filters. No leaks and unit is full of NEW fluid not just a small percent. At the dealer I worked at we flushed as many as 5 to 20 units a day. Its was the only time I EVER had customers comment that the shift/operation of the unit was noticeable improved /different then before. Was discussing this thread with a tech I worked with today(30years AMC JEEP/CHRYSLER)he said its amazing what a placebo effect some things have! referring to ban adjust.