Bandsaw

[rbattelle]

Need some advice on a possible bandsaw purchase. What I need is something to cut mostly metal, but flexible enough to be used for occasional woodcutting.



This one , available locally for $890, looks like it does what I need. It's a horizontal/vertical model, so I can use it for cutting sheet metal sections too. The ability to cut sheets and plate is very important.



On edit - just realized that Jet machine has a throat depth of only 7". That's not nearly enough for most of the sheet/plate I'd be trying to cut. I need at least a 12" throat depth.



As for flexibility to cut wood too, I notice the woodworking machines run at blade speeds about 10 times faster than the metal cutting machines (2500 FPM vs. 250 FPM). So what happens when you try to cut a piece of wood at only 250 FPM?



The metal cutting is more important to me, since I have plenty of other woodcutting tools anyway. It's just that flexibility is always useful in a $1000 investment.



I'd really appreciate any opinions on that Jet machine, or recommendations for other machines/options. I don't care if the machine is horizontal or vertical, except that if it is horizontal I'd insist that it also have a vertical mode.



-Ryan



On edit 2: maybe this one suits my needs better? Would be nice to have a cooling system, though.



On edit 3: this one looks pretty sweet.

 

[jwgary]

I'm not exactly sure what type of cutting you are wanting to do with the saw, but I'll try to put in my $. 02. The first saw is predominantly used as a chop saw for cutting bar stock to usable lengths. These tyles of saws work rather well for this, but if you use it a lot the guides will eventually wear out (more expensive industrial saws are obviously superior). The one I used like this was predominantly used to cut pieces of steel bar around 4" in diameter to rough length to be worked on a lathe. We probably abused it by cutting pieces of oil well casing into sections (like a pie), but it still did the job. In vertical mode things were a little tricky. It's not meant to really run that way, but it can be done for some chores. The table is small and flimsy and only mediocre for the job. The blade speed will work for wood, but it will cut slow and probably wont be what you want. It's like using a hacksaw to cut lumber. The throat on that first saw is 12". The 7" dimension is how wide the guide will open to expose the blade meaning that you could cut a 7" diameter bar with ease, or a rectangle 6x12. If you have a 12" wide flat plate that you want to cut, neither the vise jaws or the guide will open that far and you would have to cut in vertical mode... a tricky operation regardless of which saw you choose. If the plate is sufficient in thickness (>1/4") you might be able to clamp it vertically in the vice and cut that way and it would cut rather quickly. Hope this helps.

 

[Grizzly]

Are you sure you don't want a plasma cutter? If it's bandsaw, I'd look at Delta first. Jet & Powermatic are also good. Stay away from Sears and Harbor Freight. All brands make bandsaws for metal. I don't think that you will find one that will cut metal and wood. You can't cut wood at that low of speed.

 

[rbattelle]

Are you sure you don't want a plasma cutter? If it's bandsaw, I'd look at Delta first. Jet & Powermatic are also good. Stay away from Sears and Harbor Freight. All brands make bandsaws for metal. I don't think that you will find one that will cut metal and wood. You can't cut wood at that low of speed.

Interestingly, Grizzly makes some really nice ($$$$) bandsaws. Do you happen to work for them?



Thanks for the advice, guys. I really like the looks of theWilton 8201K (Wilton = Jet = Powermatic, all WMH tool group), which runs 120v 1ph power @ 1hp and offers blade speeds of 3300, 39, 57, 78, 107, 142, 196, and 278 FPM. It has a gearbox that permits such a huge range of speeds. The unit is therefore compatible with both metal and wood cutting. It has a 14" throat depth.



Grizzly, you're right about the plasma cutter - I've considered that. There are a couple problems with a plasma cutter, though. First of all, I'd have to build a rig to allow me to make perfectly straight cuts (what I need 99% of the time) rather than curves. Second, plasma cutters are a lot more expensive than this bandsaw (I know cheap ones can be had, but I'd want a nice one). Third, I want to be able to cut everything from 2. 5" solid square-bar aluminum to 26-ga sheet metal - I don't think a plasma cutter is that versatile. Fourth, a plasma cutter only cuts metal (does it cut aluminum?), whereas the bandsaw cuts everything.



Great advice - keep 'em coming!



-Ryan

 

[rrausch]

I just bought a restored Rockwell/Delta Multispeed bandsaw on ebay for a little over $800. Looks like it was made in the late 1960's. It will cut both steel and wood. The speeds (FPM) are 40, 60, 85, 115, 160, 220, 335 and 3000. Cast-iron table is 14X14 and cutting depth is a little over 6". It is an upright bandsaw. I've used the horizontal ones and also owned a portable bandsaw, but nothing beats a GOOD vertical bandsaw if you do a lot of cutting various shapes out of thin or thick stock. You can also get a riser to increase the cutting depth another 6". The Multiple speeds are achieved by a gearbox and also step pulleys I think--I just won the auction last Thurs. and haven't gotten it yet. It's a good one though. I've used this model before but never owned one until now.

 

[rbattelle]

Robert - what's the model number?



-Ryan

 

[rrausch]

Ryan, it's a 28-348

New they are about $1,900 or so.

There is a gear reduction (runs in oil) to slow the speed down when cutting at the slow speeds. I've also seen used ones for sale around $500, but they go pretty fast at that price. I'd keep trying google searches, and also start calling used-machinery places. The ones that are showing up at auctions are coming out of School Shops--which drives me nuts--how is the next generation going to know how to DO anything if they don't learn shop skills?

 

[rbattelle]

That 28-348 is nearly identical to the Wilton 8201K, but $900 more expensive (new). The Wilton also uses a gear reduction unit.



-Ryan

 

[rrausch]

I don't know anything about the Wilton. Is it made offshore?

I've never, ever found machine tools made in Taiwan, or China to be the equal of American made tools, however $900 more is a lot to pay for excellence.



When the Taiwan copies of the Rockwell/Delta bandsaws came out in the late 1980's I bought one, and it was ok. It always had a vibration that I could not fix, but I learned to live with it. But I've also used R/D's that had NO vibration--they just run smoother.

 

[WDixon27]

aluminum, stainless, steel, bondo, paint, rust, about the only thing i haven't tried is titanium and i don't have any, i have a friend that works for the city that gets to use plasma cutters that will slice a man hole cover in half like ripping a sheet of paper but those cost a bit more then my 25 amp smith, straight lines are no problem a steady free hand works for short runs and a piece of angle clamped to the sheet takes all of the fun out of it

a plasma cutter only cuts metal (does it cut aluminum?), whereas the bandsaw cuts everything.



-Ryan

 

[rbattelle]

Local shop wants $1k for the Wilton saw. One difference I notice between the 28-348 and the Wilton 8201K is the Delta has 1. 5 hp, compared with 1. 0 for the Wilton. Other than that I can't find any differences. My guess is the Wilton is an import whereas the Delta is a domestic.



-Ryan

 

[rrausch]

You won't notice the difference in external looks or specs. The differences will be in the tolerances. The difference will be in the perfect roundness (or lack thereof) in the wheels. The difference will be in the flatness of the cast-iron table, and in the parallel alignment of the upper and lower bores for the axles. If it's an import all those things will be a little off, and the machine will run with more vibration, and the tolerances will be sloppier than in the American made machine.



Iron Castings need to be tempered after they cool. The old way to do this was to set them out in the weather for about a year or so, and let rust do the tempering. This is the best way. These days some manufacturers heat-temper them. But some off-shore manufacturers don't bother tempering them--the result is cast-iron tables that are wavy or warped.



I once bought a Taiwan stationery belt sander (took a 6" wide belt) and the table turned out to be badly warped--it had a hump in the middle about 1/4" high! I didn't figure this out for awhile until the warranty expired--I just knew I didn't like the way the sander worked. And I put up with my Taiwan Bandsaw for many years (and tried many fixes to stop the vibration) until the motor burned out. Then I did without it for a couple of years. Finally, last week I got tired of not having a bandsaw, and I looked on ebay for another bandsaw, and found the restored 28-348. I was hooked immediately. I've used these old Rockwell/Deltas and they run really smooth because they were made by AMERICAN GUYS WHO KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING! That's one reason why they command such a premium. If you buy the Delta, it will retain more of it's resale value over the next few decades. The same can't be said of offshore tools. But I know what the pressure is like to save money on the initial purchase.

 

[rbattelle]

I can't find where either the Delta or the Wilton are made - I've been all over the web. I suspect neither are US-made, or that would be prominently displayed.



Just found the Wilton on sale that makes it exactly $1k (about $70 cheaper than the local shop) delivered to my door shipped tomorrow (local shop can't get one for about 6 weeks).



Wow, $1k for a saw. That's almost double what I've ever paid for a tool ever. It's such a huge investment I don't know what to do. I mean, I've survived without one for 28 years, why now? I suppose it's because I need (want) the capability to work with thick (12ga and larger, up to 1/2" plate) sheet metal sections. Can't cut that with a hacksaw or cutoff wheel (the way I do things now).



But $1k for a saw!?



-Ryan

 

[rbattelle]

I decided I'm going to wait and do more research. I can't afford to make the "wrong" decision when we're talking about so much money.



What I'd really love, is to do what this guy did. Take a nice industrial unit in need of some TLC and make it new again. Perhaps I can find such a project if I keep an eye on Ebay.



As rrausch points out, the Delta 28-348 is known to be a fine machine, but the Wilton is a relative unknown. Wilton doesn't provide much detail on its website in terms of features, so it's hard to know what it really has. It is curious why the Wilton weighs 280 lb but the Delta weighs "only" 224 lb.



-Ryan

 

[GWHaley]

I've used and really liked the saws made by Ellis. The one I used was a horizontal saw that the blade/motor assy. mitered. It cost a little more than the Wilton-abt. 2500

 

[rrausch]

Ryan, it ABSOLUTELY makes more sense to buy an old piece of machinery and restore it. Many states sell obs. equipment from their State website, some, like Washington State put theirs on ebay. I'll PM you if I hear of anything. Many old saws are out there, just waiting to be used again.



Washington State Surplus has this saw--it's not a bandsaw, but a Rockwell/Delta Radial Arm, and it looks like it will sell cheap. However they won't ship, so you have to go pick it up. But many states probably sell their surplus equipment like this. ebay # 7596571539

 

[rbattelle]

Finally found a review of the Wilton!



-Ryan

 

[Grizzly]

Interestingly, Grizzly makes some really nice ($$$$) bandsaws. Do you happen to work for them?



Thanks for the advice, guys. I really like the looks of theWilton 8201K (Wilton = Jet = Powermatic, all WMH tool group), which runs 120v 1ph power @ 1hp and offers blade speeds of 3300, 39, 57, 78, 107, 142, 196, and 278 FPM. It has a gearbox that permits such a huge range of speeds. The unit is therefore compatible with both metal and wood cutting. It has a 14" throat depth.



Grizzly, you're right about the plasma cutter - I've considered that. There are a couple problems with a plasma cutter, though. First of all, I'd have to build a rig to allow me to make perfectly straight cuts (what I need 99% of the time) rather than curves. Second, plasma cutters are a lot more expensive than this bandsaw (I know cheap ones can be had, but I'd want a nice one). Third, I want to be able to cut everything from 2. 5" solid square-bar aluminum to 26-ga sheet metal - I don't think a plasma cutter is that versatile. Fourth, a plasma cutter only cuts metal (does it cut aluminum?), whereas the bandsaw cuts everything. Great advice - keep 'em coming! -Ryan

No, I have nothing to do with Grizzly Tools. Also I don't even like Grizzly Tools, I don't own any and I've never heard anything good of them from professional woodworkers. Most of my stationary tools are Delta.

 

[rhino_50]

My delta band saw was made over seas. The blades size is 93 and 1/2. the band saw is about 5 years old. I not sure about the delta x series saw where it is made. My delta drill press was made over seas to. My table saw and jointer were made here in the states. Hope this helps Rhino 50.

 

[rbattelle]

For the time being, I'm on the rrausch bandwagon. I'm actively seeking an old bandsaw to restore.



I'm having trouble finding one in my price range (<$800), though. I asked for a quote on one today that turned out to be $3k! Yikes. I told them what I was looking for and asked if they had any leads. Maybe they'll respond.



Robert - the one you pointed out looks great, but it's in Salem and would cost me an arm-and-a-leg to ship. I'd like to find one within 2 hours drive.



I wonder if a used tool dealer is the wrong tree to bark up. Seems like they might all be priced out of my range.



-Ryan