Banks PowerPack TLC

[Big Don]

Guys,

I just ordered a Banks PowerPack TLC. I curently have a VA box and 275 hp injectors. The claims Banks are making and which were substantiated in the latest TDR are very impressive. Has anyone tried this setup??? It should be here later this week. I am really expecting my truck to be alot hotter than with the VA box. I also like the warranty and support. I plan on trying it to see what it's like. I do not feel that my truck is all that stout with just the VA and injectors.
If someone has tried this please let me know.

thanks
Don

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Ol' Blue "First of the first gens: 1989 D 250 Ice blue met. 5 spd 3. 54, 155,000, Banks stage III powerpack, 3. 5" straight exhaust, pump adjustments, "'Ol Blue Special" injectors.
1999 3500 4x4 Chassis cab Emerald green ISB 5 spd 4. 10 K&N Filter straight exhaust 9 ft flatbed WARN fenderflares,Let, 275hp injectors installed, boost and pyro gages, VA plug'n power and Practical Solutions boost module. Jacobs E brake. Getting ready to install Banks Power Pack TLC!!
May buy another one in 2009!!

 

[sport bike]

I would save your money and buy DDIII,s. They will make more power than the banks kit. You can keep your VA and run it to.

 

[Big Don]

What will the DDIII's do for me beside smoke up the surrounding counties??

 

[illflem]

Don,you made a good choice with Banks,they are a top of the line outfit. While their products may cost a just a little more you will get a high quality engineered as one unit product that you won't have to fool with. After the Powerpac about the only thing you might want to add is a Psycotty air unit if your EGTs are running high.

 

[HVAC]

Big Don, what was the price tag on the Banks kit? You may want to consider another performance source. I raced a truck with the Banks $2500 package and trounced him several times. This was with like for like trucks. All we had was a set of Stage III injectors which are not a problem with regard to smoke.
You can make more horsepower with less investment from my experience. This is power that is safe to tow with too.


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Nowel/Performance Diesel

 

[Big Don]

I am afraid of the "modified" injectors. I am afraid of washing down cylinder walls, leaks and life of the injectors and engine. I have no doubt of the performance gains you speak of. I like to run my trucks for a long time. I have an 89 with a Banks Powerpack and injectors and pump mods. The problem i have is that my 99 with the 275 injectors and VA box will not run like Ol' Blue. In the TDR the test says the Banks kit lays down 300hp at the rear wheels and almost 750 lbft. of torque. I plan on leaving my injectors in so... ... . she should really get right when I mash the loud pedal. alot of folks like the VA box and I too am a little impressed and I also added the PS boost fooler. The truck just don't "get it on" like I expect. I straddle the fence. I like power but also want long life. I feel the BANKS solution will give the best of both worlds. I got a great deal on the kit as I am now a dealer for Banks. I believe in their products and I was curious if anyone has tried them on the ISB yet???? I use both my trucks to tow with and test new products. I have tried the EDGE EZ and VA boxes. They are nice, but no one can really tell us how much power they ad by themselves. The BD literature says with the Plug'n'Power and injectors you get 270hp at rear wheels and 580 ftlbs. Either these claims are bogus or my 89 is one hot rotary pumped truck (I don't believe it is this hot now do you???). I am just trying to get a new truck to run better than my old one. It has 4. 10 gears and a 5 speed. I would expect it to turn the tires pretty good with this kind of torque. My 89 will set the tires on fire and it is a 5 speed 3. 55 gears. seat of the pants feel is that the boxes do not deliver as advertised. Please do not flame me as these are only my opinions. I like the old trucks better. you can feel the raw torque when you mash the loud pedal in them.

thanks
Don

thanks
Don

 

[sport bike]

Don,

We are just trying to say you some money. Keep your 275 and buy a Bluebox,Powermax,or a PE box to get the hp.

 

[Big Don]

I looked at the products you mention, but I am afraid of the "cut and splice" method of obtaining hp. I appreciate and welcome your concern. I would like to try the Banks kit and if it does not give me the power I need then I will be forced to go the "cut and splice" method. I think the worst thing Cummins did was to go from the inline pumps to the new VP44 pumps. I do not own an inline pump truck, but my next one will have the P7100 inline pump on it. Those trucks kick *** .

You've got me started now. I remeber when the "New ISB" came out and Cummins claimed three things in all their brochures
1) More power and torque
2) Better fuel economy
3) Quiter operation

Not one of the above claims is true. The new ISB's in stock form do NOT have any low end torque. If the rpm's drop below about 1600 it's all over. The older trucks will lug right down to 1,000rpms and accelerate without down shifting.
This "All new flat torque curve" is a load of crap. Have they forgotten all about the Torque Rise that diesels are so noted for??????? A flat torque curve would be great if the trucks had lots of torque to start with but... ... ... .

Also afriend of mine (I wrote about this in another post) had his 99 Dodge leave him on the side of the road. I went and helped him get it going again, but when he took it to the dealer they told him it would need a new lift pump and a new injection pump cause the lift pump had starved the injection pump and damaged it.
Did you ever hear of crap like this happening to the older trucks??????
The first gen trucks rock and roll pretty good and don't give this kind of trouble and to hell with electronics if they are gonna breakdown all the time.
I do NOT like the electronics mainly because I am ignorant as to exactly how they work. I am a mechanical engineer and I understand how Diesels work. I have always like dthem because they are pretty simple and require absolutely NO electricity to run. But when I turn the switch on my new truck I hear all kinds of clicking, buzzing, whirring etc. And another note... . why do you have to crank on these engines to get them started?????? The old trucks are like turning a switch on. They do not hardly turn over and they are running. When I change the fuel filter on the old truck it always starts and runs smooth. The new trucks have to be bled, cranked, stoked, begged, cussed, etc. to get them started again after changing filters. WHY?????????????

Sorry to get on my soap box, but I feel that if you've never owned a Cummins before the ISB, then you've never really owned a good engine. The ISB is an imitator, almost like the Ford PSD, they act like diesels, but if it weren't for all the high priced elctronics they would not even run.

later
Don

 

[illflem]

Right on Don,I too would rather own a PSD than a 24v Cummins electric motor. I expect my 12 valves to last a long time and am very happy with them,hopefully I'll never have to buy a Ford nor any other brand.

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95' 25004X4,AT,Driftwood,Banks Stinger,Warn fender flairs and running boards(Play truck)95 3500,5 speed,Driftwood,Banks&Phscotty,34,000 GCVW apple and tractor hauler(work truck)

 

[Mike Vonada]

Don,
If possible post some dyno numbers after your install, so we can see what the Banks will make.
As you can see there are different opinions about everything around here. That is again why they sell chevy, fords and OURS!

 

[sport bike]

I disagree with you Don. I would rather have a 24v truck. With a flick of a switch you go from mild to wild. I don,t know of anybody that is making 525hp on a stock motor 12v. It seams to get that kind of power you have to change head gasket,port your cyl head,or add water injection to help control exh temps. There is nothing wrong with the VP44 aslong as you get enough fuel to it. The p pump has it,s problems to when you turn it up. Real sensitive throttle just off of idle. Also it seams to get that kind of power out of a 12v you have to turn up the rpm for one of two reason. Either to get enough air flow so the motor doesn,t run hot or you have to turn the pump at higher rpm to get the extra fuel out of it. I think it,s the first one myself,but it could be mixture of both.


Good luck with the Banks kit.

 

[John]

Hey Big Don, I've got kind of a Heinz 57 deal going on in my 24v Ram... I've got the entire Banks PowerPack kit installed on/in my Ram EXCEPT for the electronic Ottomind and Dynafact gauges. Instead, I've installed DD3 injectors (which should add more HP than the Ottomind... AND stress the injection pump less) and just recently purchased 3 SPA combination (digital) gauges to replace my VDO Vision series gauges... which I think are vastly superior to the Dynafact gauges.

I, like illflem, believe that Banks products are of very high quality and expertly engineered. Their systems are also 50 state emmisions legal. Some of the other brands of individual components are too... BUT NOT IN COMBINATION WITH ANY OTHER PERFORMANCE COMPONENTS. The Banks SYSTEMS are 50 state emmisions legal... the SYSTEMS, not individual components are EPA certified. Something to consider.

Regarding the 12v P7100 comment; I too wish I had purchased a '98 12v instead of my mid '98. 5 24v Ram.

 

[Arcticat]

Don, get a Hot Poweredge and sell your VA! It leaves a tiny prick in the fuel pump wire - YOU DON'T CUT OR SPLICE ANYTHING. I don't see the "ottomind" making 85hp without doing the same thing, that is how the stinger+ always was - it tapped the same wire. The hot edge has been proven at dyno days to give 100hp improvement, compared to 85hp for the Banks, and for 2 grand less! If you sell the VA you will only have a couple hundred bucks net into the deal(trust me you won't want it anyway, it really doesn't add much at this level besides smoke)

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'00 2500 reg cab LB 4x4, 5spd, LSD, Hot Poweredge, 275 injectors, Warn HS9500I winch, Trans4mer grille guard/winchmount, TracRack, Line-X OTR, G-tech, Loadsaver, and a bunch of other crap I don't technically "need" Name a factory option-I don't have it!

 

[Big Don]

The Banks kit is the new TLC kit. I looked at the earlier kits and they did not add enough HP or torque. This new kit claims 145 additional HP and 288 additional lbft of torque. I tow with my truck regularly and do not feel that I need 525 hp. I do not think running with a load and producing that type of hp would lead to a long and happy life for the engine. I know alot of you guys are drag racing only and that is fine, I'm sure you have fun, but I do not want to have to drive around all the time watching the pyro to avoid a meltdown while towing. I will try to get dyno results when weather is fair. Does anyone know of a dyno in the Northest TN or southwest VA area???? I live near kingsport, Bristol, Johnson City and about 100 miles from Knoxville.

later
Don

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

The 24 valve engines respond well to the add-on boxes. The new 10 level TST box was impressive on the dyno and the street in a couple trucks I tested recently. All of the "highly" effective boxes splice into the pump wire, with either a pin (PE) or Scotchlok (Chip, TST). HVAC has demonstrated that if you add enough electronics and big injectors, the 24 valve will run with the 12 valve on diesel fuel, around 500 hp.

Sportbike, lets keep the comparisions fair. There is no major advantage to the breathing of the 24 valve engine. You have to turn on several switches to make 525 hp (fuel and propane), right? And, your egt's aren't exactly cool if you use the power for more than a few seconds, either, right? The egt mods on the 12 valves are needed just the same on the 24 valve engines, or you have to add a lot of something that serves as an egt reducer (propane, etc. ). I also hear you used a Mustang dyno that loads the engine a lot, so it can make more power in the moderate rpm range. HVAC, Adam, Piers, and I are reporting hp numbers using the Dynojet which may have some bias to the low side, but does give good comparison truck-to-truck and before-and-after modifications. The four of us also went to the HX40 for more airflow, too. I don't mean to start anything here, just to keep us all on a common ground. Air+fuel=power=heat. We all have to deal with those facts.

 

[sport bike]

No Joe, i made that with just diesel. Also exh temps would exceed my 1650egt gauge. Now that i have the H2E on the truck,max egt,s are 1400. I need a little more work on the egt problem and then i will add more fuel. As far as a dyno,i have been on a dynojet and a mustang II. As you know it takes fuel to make boost. With a HX-40 i made 50-51psi,H2E 53psi.


There is know doubt that a P pump can flow more fuel,but most people don,t give the VP44 enough credit.

 

[Arcticat]

Don, we here are trying to help you out and save you alot of money, but I'm having a hard time understanding your problem. In your first post you said the Banks numbers were substantiated in the lastest TDR magazine. I looked at my magazine and the results were a less than 85hp gain on a stock truck. In your last post you say that Banks claims 145hp improvement. Doesn't a discrepancy of 60hp between a company's claims and reality worry you in regard to their credibility? Edge products and TST tell you what their products will produce on the dyno and then they back it up in the real world! Edge claims 100hp for a hot edition of their box, and at dyno days this was proven multiple times. I don't know about you, but I would rather have an advertised 100hp product that ACTUALLY PRODUCES 100hp then one that claims 145hp and only produces 85hp.

As far as egt goes, Joe hit it right on the head - fuel +air = power = heat. You can only go so fast up steep grades with a load, no matter what brand of fuel delivery enhancement you are running.

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'00 2500 reg cab LB 4x4, 5spd, LSD, Hot Poweredge, 275 injectors, Warn HS9500I winch, Trans4mer grille guard/winchmount, TracRack, Line-X OTR, G-tech, Loadsaver, and a bunch of other crap I don't technically "need" Name a factory option-I don't have it!

[This message has been edited by Arcticat (edited 12-25-2000). ]

 

[Big Don]

Artic Cat,

Not to argue, but Banks gives least and best gains. The best hp gain peak to peak is 145hp. You can look at the graphs. They only claim 650ftlbs. but the dyno shows almost 750ftlbs. without high EGT's. Looks like their system limits EGT's to 1300 max. I like that. I just don't want a system where I am in danger of a meltdown. Like Joe pointed out some of the trucks will make 500hp but only for a few seconds. Not to take away from their achievements, but is this really practical????? Absolutely not. Thanks for the info guys, I will try their system and see how I like it. I plan on running my truck for atleast 15 years cause they are too expensive. Can any of you say that you expect to own your trucks in 15 years and at 500+ hp do you think they will last without major upkeep and mods, headgaskets, etc. ????

thanks for the concern
Don

 

[JerryWallace]

I ordered the same powerpack for my 20001 ETH. The stated numbers,(145hp 288ft-lbs) are all in the power of the pencle,not real world numbers! MY REALWORLD stock 213. 6 hp 393. 7 torque after powerpack 280. 7 hp 559. 2 torque stock tires,3. 55 gears 5th gear run

 

[Mopar-muscle]

hey sporty , whats H2E ?????