Banks Prototype Box Tested

[DBurkhard]

I picked up my truck from Banks yesterday, as I had the prototype six gun installed. Here's what I have learned today... ...



This does seem to add considerable power. I floored it going around a corner and almost spun completely around. I figured the rears would hook up better so I just stayed into the throttle. It kept building boost and more power so at the point I was 3/4 around, I let off (I'll consider that breaking in the Michelins) The power comes on very smooth and strong.



On trucks with an auto, the box will monitor transmission slippage (when locked) and reduce power accordingly. The box also defuels mementarily during lockup.



The current box is a combination pressure and timing box. Pulse width (duration) is not altered.



The Banks engineer indicated they are looking to release the product in 3-4 weeks.



I'll post more driving impressions after I put a few more miles on the truck. Traffic really sucked coming home from Banks, so I didn't get to run very fast. Only little spurts here and there.



Dan

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

I assume this is Bank's first box for the 3rd Gens. If it only does timing and fuel pressure it's no different than the other boxes that have been out there for awhile from Bully Dog, Diesel Dynamics, Quadzilla, Edge, VMAC, etc. The boxes everyone is waiting for are the pulsewidth modulating non-pressure increasing boxes. PW modulation seems to be the big challenge.



Vaughn

 

[ChadHarlan]

So basicly you cannot use the full power of this box because of the trans slippage. It sounds like it will limit you to prevent damage.

 

[KLockliear]

It would be interesting to know how they determine slippage in the auto trans. The 47/48RE's do not have input/output shaft speed sensors to determine this like the Allison 1000 does.

 

[nickleinonen]

Originally posted by KLockliear

It would be interesting to know how they determine slippage in the auto trans. The 47/48RE's do not have input/output shaft speed sensors to determine this like the Allison 1000 does.

maybe just by taking the speed signals from the engine and speedo. when locked, if the engine accelarates at a faster rate than it should when compared to the speed signal coming from the diff, it'll know something is slipping in the middle there...

 

[KLockliear]

So it plugs into the ECM and gets this or plugs into the trans harness and engine harness?

 

[TheWolf]

Update?, got some more info yet?

 

[Car_nut57]

The new Banks box is supposed to do all three, duration, timing and pressure and the numbers are as follows:



Six-Gun Part# 62977

105hp

258 lb-ft



Speed loader Part# 62978 used with Six-Gun

126hp

290 lb-ft



We should have these in stock about the end of the month.

Originally posted by Vaughn MacKenzie

I assume this is Bank's first box for the 3rd Gens. If it only does timing and fuel pressure it's no different than the other boxes that have been out there for awhile from Bully Dog, Diesel Dynamics, Quadzilla, Edge, VMAC, etc. The boxes everyone is waiting for are the pulsewidth modulating non-pressure increasing boxes. PW modulation seems to be the big challenge.



Vaughn

 

[HoleshotHolset]

So what does the Speed Loader do that the Six Gun doesn't do?



Matt

 

[DLeno]

At the risk of thread drift here, I'm reading through these and thinking that TST is the only duration/timing and no pressure increase box. true? Mark has been very steady on the issue of pressure, and that he prefers not to touch factory pressure levels -- even Dr. P style (which does not exceed stock maximums). I've been thinking of why Mark chose this approach.



So I mentinon the Dr. P box here only to bring up the pressure philosphy question again. We all know that the Dr. P box raises fuel pressure "above" stock levels but does not go over stock peak pressure. ok, so that means peak HP is no different and the truck will simply 'feel' more lively because the lower power levels now have increased fuel. What I'm curious about is why there is even an opportunity to make the HPCR behave more like a constant pressure fuel source? Why do the stock levels fluctuate under varying load demands?



Seems like a constant high pressure would yield slightly better fuel atomization -- so why not run the HPCR at 1600 bar all the time? Some reasons I can think of are:



1. injector reliability would suffer. this might be too little of a change to matter, but consider that the injector has to control higher pressures, so there's a natural wear factor.



2. rail reliability itself. keeping it at 1600 bar will increase component stress. again, this might be to little of a point to matter, but it deserves mention. On the other hand, constant pressure fluctuations might stress the system more than a constant high pressure, I dont' know.



3. The high pressure results in too responsive of a truck, and a difficulty maintaining idle and other low power utilizations. Recall that the 02 throttle was (for many) too responsive. lowering fuel pressure probably helps drivability in that regard.



So anyway, even if you never go above factory maximum of 1600 bar, the Dr. P box, and others like it (like the Edge EZ on lower settings) are only accomplishing one thing: a change in responsiveness. Effectively, they are only changing the power-out versus throttle position curve. And they do so at the peril of rail reliability, however much of a concern that might or might not be. Maybe thats where Mark @ TST is coming from...

 

[DBurkhard]

Originally posted by Car_nut57

The new Banks box is supposed to do all three, duration, timing and pressure and the numbers are as follows:



Six-Gun Part# 62977

105hp

258 lb-ft



Speed loader Part# 62978 used with Six-Gun

126hp

290 lb-ft



We should have these in stock about the end of the month.

The Banks box does pressure and timing only. According to Banks, they will only come out with a duration box if the market demands this. They said duration capability would add a few hundred dollars to the cost without that much of an incremental gain in power. According to Banks, the Duramax used standard connectors for accessing computer information flow, while the Cummins uses some very expensive proprietary connectors. They also indicated they are using less fuel pressure increase than the competition, (I have no way to verify this. )



Some additional info I did not mention the first time around... ...



This box is mounted inside the truck under the kick panel in front of the knees. It uses a wiring harness which passes through the firewall. While this install is virtually hidden, it will definitely be more of a pain to remove.



The box monitors transmission slippage by monitoring engine RPM and speed. It knows what speed should be achieved by any given RPM. One of the wires running to the ECM is tapped so I assume this is to monitor either RPM or Speed.



My EGT guage is malfunctioning so I have not pushed the truck very hard. Once I get this fixed I'll get some temp numbers out.



Dan

 

[DLeno]

huh. all this wait for pressure and timing. Bullydog has been doing that for how long now?



The 'expensive' connectors compared to Duramax is probably nothing more than the fact that a Cummins duration box requires a connection to the injector itself -- the (eletrical engineering) part that Edge and TST have dumped so much R&D time and money into. or does this one have 6 injector connections?



Sounds to me like they don't have the R&D power to produce a duration box and that this one is little more than a me-too Bullydog box plus a Bell and a whistle (slip detection).



I'll watch for a price tag equal to or greater than the Edge/TST boxes -- and some sales verbiage claiming what they wern't able to do (duration) isn't the best choice.

 

[ChadHarlan]

Originally posted by DLeno

huh. all this wait for pressure and timing. Bullydog has been doing that for how long now?



The 'expensive' connectors compared to Duramax is probably nothing more than the fact that a Cummins duration box requires a connection to the injector itself -- the (eletrical engineering) part that Edge and TST have dumped so much R&D time and money into. or does this one have 6 injector connections?



Sounds to me like they don't have the R&D power to produce a duration box and that this one is little more than a me-too Bullydog box plus a Bell and a whistle (slip detection).



I'll watch for a price tag equal to or greater than the Edge/TST boxes -- and some sales verbiage claiming what they wern't able to do (duration) isn't the best choice.

That sounds about right to me.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

FWIW: I think there will only be 3 'injector' connectors.



Looking through the '03 manual... I only saw 3 connectors, but they hooked up to all 6 injectors... . so each connector handles 2 injectors each.



Matt

 

[Car_nut57]

Six-Guns are in

We got our first shipment of Six-Guns today for those who have been patiently waiting, they are now available.

 

[1rumrunner]

I had an Power Edge EZ and I couldn't leave well enough alone and decided to try the new Banks 6 gun w/ speed loader... ...

The truck seems to shift much better but I feel that the Edge made better power. My biggest gripe is my mileage dropped by 20%!!!!!:{

 

[DLeno]

because of the box or your foot?

 

[1rumrunner]

I'll clarify... ... ... around town mileage seems to be the same, but my highway has dropped 20%. (600 mile trip at 80-85 MPH)