Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) banks turbo housing a good upgrade?

[SSolderitch]

According to the latest tdr mag, the oem hx35 is to restrictive do to emmsions. I have a chance to buy a new banks housing & big head for a good price. As you see in my sig I have 275's, 4" exhaust & 5 sp. I really can't get the egt's over 900. yes thats pre turbo. I will be reloading smarty after a ecm change. I tow only a 7k trailer and might snow plow. Would this be a good upgrade? Don't want to hurt milage, I get smoke between shifts etc or I can drive it smokeless if I have to. Stock is 12 and the banks is 14... . I don't want to pay the price for a new turbo.

 

[PC12Driver]

When a turbo becomes a restriction it'll show up in the egts. At 900*, it's not a restriction yet for your style of driving, so there's no reason to upgrade.



In fact, it may be possible that you're egts will increase with the larger housing, since the compressor won't be driven with as much energy in the lower rpm range.

 

[SSolderitch]

yes, the banks quick turbo housing talks about higher torque at lower rpm, but with the smarty seems already doing the same thing (only better?). Hope to get some dyno numbers on my truck in the near future. What is done to yours? I would be happy with the numbers you posted.

 

[SRadke]

If you're seeing max 900 degrees pre turbo with a stock turbo your pyro is not accurate or your truck is not fueling correctly.

-Scott

 

[Forrest Nearing]

how is a larger turbine housing going to show more torque down low?



the banks housing and "big head" actuator are a total rip-off IMO



you could buy and adapt an HE351 for less and it will outperform the HX35 in all areas

 

[Grumpy John 4x4]

Banks Turbo

Big NO on the Banks turbo's, ditto on forest's commets

 

[PC12Driver]

yes, the banks quick turbo housing talks about higher torque at lower rpm, but with the smarty seems already doing the same thing (only better?). Hope to get some dyno numbers on my truck in the near future. What is done to yours? I would be happy with the numbers you posted.

Like Forrest said, a bigger exhaust housing doesn't equal more torque down low. The inverse is true; the larger opening doesn't extract as much energy to drive the compressor, so there isn't as much air available for cumbustion for a given rpm. And since the ECM increases fueling based on manifold pressure, lower pressure equals less fuel available. No way would it give more torque down low. The larger housing will give you slightly lower egts on the top end.



Scott has a good point - 900* seems a touch low. Stock should easily see 1100-1200*. What are you doing when you see this? (load, boost, rpm)



As far as my mods, I've got Mach2 injectors, a standard Comp, HTB2/12, Haisley cam, and the usual supporting airflow and fuel supply enhancements.

 

[SSolderitch]

Previous owner had installed a isopro egt & fuel press. I added a boost gauge. I can see 900-950 on a hill or wot, crusing flat about 750-800, idles at 225-250 degrees. Peak boost is 36 and with good pulling in second & 3rd gear about 20-25 psi. Haven't had the smarty loaded for the past year. I got a new revo handheld unit, My old setup was a smarty ecm swap fixed at #9, until the ecm went bad, had it reflashed, smarty won't load, bought a another ecm to install. But even with running the smarty the egt & boost were about the same, just the truck was a lot quicker.

 

[SSolderitch]

Ok, what would I need to do to adapt a HE351? I might give that a try. Need more info...

It looks like the outlet is at 12 o'clock were mine is at 6 o'clock and the exhaust elbow is bigger according to a picture I just seen. It also has the brake built in?

 

[ThrottleJockey]

how is a larger turbine housing going to show more torque down low?



the banks housing and "big head" actuator are a total rip-off IMO



you could buy and adapt an HE351 for less and it will outperform the HX35 in all areas

By allowing the engine to breathe better. But I do agree that all the Banks crap is a ripoff.



The 16 housing is the best.

 

[PC12Driver]

By allowing the engine to breathe better. But I do agree that all the Banks crap is a ripoff.



The 16 housing is the best.

It'll help it exhale, but the cost is less O2 on the inhale from the reduced boost. Black smoke = lost power. All else equal, a larger exhaust housing will always move the powerband higher in the rpm range.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

It'll help it exhale, but the cost is less O2 on the inhale from the reduced boost. Black smoke = lost power. All else equal, a larger exhaust housing will always move the powerband higher in the rpm range.

Black smoke= lost power. To me that's kind of funny thinking of the smoke show put up in the air by a modified puller, but I'm not trying to pick an argument with you. I just disagree. I also think what you are saying is true, to a degree.



It's just that the turbocharger cannot enhance the powerband down in the the low rpm range. A Supercharger, maybe... . but I see what your'e saying.



Even the PERFECT hybrid turbo, is still just a turbocharger. All of them are going to be weak somwhere in the powerband. Lag, etc. . We think we can select the perfect charger and it will heroically transform our engine into something it's not. Truth of the matter is, a good running diesel doesn't NEED low rpm boost to create a lot of torque.



It's a diesel.

 

[darkhorse]

The Banks Quickspool is nothing other than a Holset 14 cm housing. If you need a bigger housing & can get it for a good price it's not a rip off. With the Smarty, you will not notice any loss in spool up time.

 

[Forrest Nearing]

By allowing the engine to breathe better. But I do agree that all the Banks crap is a ripoff.



The 16 housing is the best.

only problem is the 16 isn't gated

 

[PC12Driver]

Black smoke= lost power. To me that's kind of funny thinking of the smoke show put up in the air by a modified puller, but I'm not trying to pick an argument with you. I just disagree. I also think what you are saying is true, to a degree.



It's just that the turbocharger cannot enhance the powerband down in the the low rpm range. A Supercharger, maybe... . but I see what your'e saying.



Even the PERFECT hybrid turbo, is still just a turbocharger. All of them are going to be weak somwhere in the powerband. Lag, etc. . We think we can select the perfect charger and it will heroically transform our engine into something it's not. Truth of the matter is, a good running diesel doesn't NEED low rpm boost to create a lot of torque.



It's a diesel.

Black smoke from a diesel is soot, or incompletely burned diesel fuel. Meaning there are BTUs left in the fuel/air charge, but they're getting blown out of the engine before all the energy can be extracted. Thus, wasted energy or lost power.



I agree, the smoke show from the pullers is a sign of power. But only in the sense that they are at the point of being oxygen limited with these little engines (can't physically fit much more in during the intake stroke) or are turbo-limited by class rules, and are dumping in as much fuel as possible without blowing the fires out, with little regard to egts. Nonetheless, if they could stuff enough air into the cylinders to burn all the fuel completely, there would be a gain in power.



In the spirit of this thread however (a slightly modified street truck), my black smoke=lost power statement is 100% accurate. A larger housing will open up the air path through the engine, but at the cost of delaying the compressor's input to the engine. Without that input, the engine is effectively normally aspirated for a longer period in the bottom of the rpm range. Without the air from the compressor to completely burn the fuel the engine will feel sluggish, power will be low, and there will be black smoke. Any larger housing than the stock 12cm will delay the compressor and move the torque curve to the right on the dyno graph.



I wasn't implying that the 12cm gives off-idle power like a supercharger; I'm only expanding on Forrest's original response as to why Bank's "higher torque at lower rpm" claim is completely bogus.

 

[SSolderitch]

I think you guys convinced me to stay with my stocker, because it suites my driving needs. But the other point was my egt's were to low? some fuel issue?

 

[PC12Driver]

Or egt probe/gauge issues.