Banks vs Smarty

[Ducker]

I have an early 04 2500 with a banks ottominder,intake box and k&N filter,monster exhaust system 4". Truck runs and works great. I don't see many people with Bank,s systems alot of smarty's. Is there any input on the pros and cons of these two systems??

 

[MChrist]

From personal experience with both, you get better bang for the buck with Smarty. Not apples to apples comparison, though since Banks was on a '98. 5 and Smarty is on my '06. Ultimately, I disconnected my Banks Otto Mind from my older truck, since I didn't like it. Power only came on after around 2300, then came on hard, like a 2 stroke dirt bike.
I think they probably do spend more time than other companies when it comes down to designing things and making "packages" for trucks. Their intake systems and scoops are very well designed, for example.

 

[Ducker]

My turbo spools fast and it goes right off the bat

 

[JTruelove]

I have both. The Smarty really made the truck snappier, but that could be the timing too. I may get some negative feedback, but I like my Banks stuff. It does cost more, but I have never had to drive according to my EGT probe. It may not be the fastest or make the most HP, but it sure is dependable. A friend of mine had a 02 similar to mine now, got rid of the truck and put in an EDGE and he liked the Banks better. He is running an 06 with twins, smarty, EDGE, BANKS Intake. He is only using the EDGE to monitor his fuel pressure. He said he is going back with a Banks stuff. Again these are not race trucks... he uses his to two a 43' Toy Hauler. You cant beat the smarty!

 

[TCDiesel]

Banks Fit and finish is 2nd to none... We now have customer with over 500k on 03/04 trucks that have had the Six Gun tuner since 04. I have the Same tuner Since 05 in My 03 . . The IQ is 10 times more reliable and has 10 times more options then any device available. Nothing wrong with BD/Smarty,,,, Edge is a POS.

 

[JMarketos]

I have the Banks Economind, what they call stage III. Purchased ~April 2009, installed ~ July 2009. (it has the cold air box + red intake horn + bigger intercooler + cat back exhaust + blue economind tuner. I got the optional display module, can't remember what it's called, they have since come out with a bigger better one. )
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Honestly I haven't driven the truck very much since installing the Banks. ~ 1000 miles total. Overall very happy with everything. It all installed per the instructions, and I didn't encounter any of "this doesn't fit right" etc. The engine personality changes noticeably on the different power settings- I think there is a setting for economy, and one for "same as stock", then 3 or 4 more which add power. Given that mine is a 48RE auto and bone stock, I don't play much with added power levels. And since I haven't driven the truck much since installing, I can't make any testimonials for fuel consumption etc. The main attraction for installing the Banks stuff was to get a bigger intercooler. I have seen opinions both ways on whether an upgraded intercooler actually lowers EGTs. My 0. 02 from direct observation is yes it does make a significant difference. In my case I have both pre-turbo and post-turbo EGT gauges that were installed long before the Banks stuff was (ISSPRO from Genos).
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Bottom line- I have had good luck w/ Banks. I am not affiliated with them in any way, not married to anybody's sister etc. What appealed to me about Banks was their pitch (and what I've seen in TV shows touring facilities etc. ) about the extended engineering they do for safety and longevity etc. The Banks kit I bought has its own independent thermocouple which must be installed at a given location in the exhaust manifold.
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From what I have read, it's possible to get the same or more HP increase for less $ by using a product other than Banks. So if bang for the buck is absolute decision maker, then Banks may not be your choice. I have also read on here criticism of Banks for not well supporting old product. I can't offer first-hand info on that. Personally I have been happy with the quality and ease of install "as described" and support I have had from Banks. I did encounter one "issue", not resolved yet, but frankly I'm not sure that it's a Banks issue either. The "issue" is: Among its safety components, the Banks unit watches some combination of engine RPM and vehicle speed etc. and makes some calculation to look for transmission slip. What happens is- the Banks unit regularly detects what it thinks is trans slip, and gives the warning on the Banks display. Maybe the Banks unit is hyper-sensitive to detecting slip, or maybe my trans is really slipping, I dunno. And again, I haven't driven the truck very much since installing the Banks stuff, so I haven't had much opportunity to work with it. What I do know is-
[1]The slip detection happens about 25% of the time- maybe one out of 4 trips.
[2]It seems to happen vast majority of time at low speeds, as in starting from a dead stop and in 1st & 2nd gear.
[3]It seems to happen more if I drive more gently- as in very gentle accel. It seems to happen less if I drive normally- that is, not jackrabbit starts or 25 lb boost coming away from stoplight, but get my foot into it quickly and use at least 8-10lb boost.
[4]The trans operation feels totally fine to me and didn't change when the Banks was installed. Before receiving the warning from the Banks box, I never had any feeling of "gee, feels like that was slipping".
[5]There is a re-set procedure I can go through to clear the slip code, but even if I don't do that, it will typically clear itself after a few minutes on the highway. I wonder if this may be an OBDII code that has been happening all along, doesn't set the orange light, and I only became aware of it after I installed the Banks monitor.
[6]My truck has done some (light compared to most of you) towing- 7K, and has 39K miles, has had gentle treatment and has had trans fluid change, but I have not yet adjusted the 1st gear band. Part of me wonders if that might be contributing to the cause of the slip detection, so I am cautious about beating Banks up for this. At this point the ball is in my court and has been for many months. Truck runs and drives fine, and the condition often corrects itself, so I haven't been too worried about it.
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As my sig indicates (and I added that some time ago after seeing Banks get beat up elsewhere)... I am overall very happy with the Banks stuff.

 

[Gibbs]

First off, I have the Banks Big Hoss Bundle and have had it installed since '05 IIRC. It has Six Gun tuner (should be called 5 gun because position 1 is stock or off), Speed Loader module, 4" turbo back exhaust, larger wastegate "controller" bigger intercooler and tubes, intake horn, and EGT/boost gauges. I've excellent results from it and there's been zero problems besides throwing the occasional P0336 (crankshaft pos. sensor performance. ) I go under the truck and clean off the sensor and it eventually goes away. I've called tech support a couple times in the past and both times spoke to good people.



I had a friend who had Smarty on his '05 and he loved it. (Has since sold the truck) Smarty has a lot of good features, includes a built in code reader (Banks offers that with the PDA I think) and has the capability to seriously put the fuel to the fire. I think my buddy's favorite feature was turning it up all the way and blacking out pesky fart-can-equipped imports). Smarty also supports their product very well. I've read tons of threads where Marco and others offered their support. You won't see that with Banks--they're a big outfit who probably doesn't care as much, IMHO.



Smarty is capable of so much power, discretion must be used to prevent excessive EGT, trans damage, etc. Banks is more of a package aimed at moderate power and everyday reliability without having to worry much about it. Its not that the Smarty doesn't produce reliable power, its that its really easy to turn it up higher than your truck can handle. Some people aren't responsible enough to handle it, lol.

 

[JMetzger]

I have the Banks Stinger on my truck since bought in 02. Knock on wood haven't had any problems.

 

[AMcCormick]

On a highway road trip I averaged 19mpg with the smarty on sw7 with the pod at 75%. 19 may not be all that spectacular but that is with 90's and a slightly modded fuel pump and a 325 engine. That same setting can spin the tires. Like others have said you need to pay attention with the smarty because it can give lots of extra power. The smarty will also grow with you as you upgrade other items. I have not used any banks products so only one side of the story here. I like the smarty for the other features such as the calibration for tire size and able to clear codes. All of the different settings and functions can seem like a bit much to get figured out but once you find a happy spot it works well. the torque management settings can make the truck very responsive

 

[AH64ID]

Banks makes good products, but as others have said they just cost too much for what you gain.

The stock intake isn't restrictive enough to need replaced below 450 rwhp, so thats a waste of $$, but banks tells you its recommended for their stuff, when really for $15 at home depot you can flow air for 450 rwhp and be good.

The exhaust is the same way, plenty of proof out there that the stock 4" (04. 5+) is plenty for 600+ rwhp, 03-04 could use a bigger elbow and down pipe.

K&N filters are JUNK, and are turbo eaters... You want a dry filter on a turbo'd rig, so pull that ASAP.

The intercooler is also not needed... at least based on the intake air temps I see with the stock IC, and stock turbo at above stock airflow. With the stock IC the IAT's are roughly +45* max from the ambient temp, and thats with 30+ boost, 95* day. 1* drop in IAT's accounts for 1. 5* drop in EGT's... So if you can't drop it that far then you aren't going to see a difference. You may improve flow, but you are already seeing 30+ psi of boost at the intake manifold the difference isn't going to be noticeable in power or EGT's, at least not at the extreme $$ of an IC. The stock cam is much more restrictive in airflow than the stock intercooler.

I will give banks some applause on their older stuff. . the turbo kit we had on our 6. 2 GM was a great kit, and worked very well... But to me they are adding a lot of fluff to their new stuff to get you to buy more than you need.

 

[p-Bar]

Banks makes good products, but as others have said they just cost too much for what you gain.



The stock intake isn't restrictive enough to need replaced below 450 rwhp, so thats a waste of $$, but banks tells you its recommended for their stuff, when really for $15 at home depot you can flow air for 450 rwhp and be good.



The exhaust is the same way, plenty of proof out there that the stock 4" (04. 5+) is plenty for 600+ rwhp, 03-04 could use a bigger elbow and down pipe.



K&N filters are JUNK, and are turbo eaters... You want a dry filter on a turbo'd rig, so pull that ASAP.



The intercooler is also not needed... at least based on the intake air temps I see with the stock IC, and stock turbo at above stock airflow. With the stock IC the IAT's are roughly +45* max from the ambient temp, and thats with 30+ boost, 95* day. 1* drop in IAT's accounts for 1. 5* drop in EGT's... So if you can't drop it that far then you aren't going to see a difference. You may improve flow, but you are already seeing 30+ psi of boost at the intake manifold the difference isn't going to be noticeable in power or EGT's, at least not at the extreme $$ of an IC. The stock cam is much more restrictive in airflow than the stock intercooler.



I will give banks some applause on their older stuff. . the turbo kit we had on our 6. 2 GM was a great kit, and worked very well... But to me they are adding a lot of fluff to their new stuff to get you to buy more than you need.

Great bullet points

 

[AHolt]

I bought a cat back exhaust from Banks, within 4yrs

had a 1/4 hole in the side of it. If you call banks and

want to buy something they will call right back.

Call them with problem, see if they call back.

 

[JCockerill]

i bought a banks "bundle" when i first got my truck because i didn't know any better... it's overpriced and you glow out of it quick once you realize all the other stuff out there. there customer service is garbage, and the prices are downright rediculous. overall the products have been ok, haven't given me any trouble. i would say they are great for an entry level guy looking for a nice safe package to wake the truck up a little. I personally would never buy banks products again. Take a look at the H&S tuners