BBI .5 injectors with 50k miles

[Axekicker]

Just got the truck back from the diesel shop after a trans service, FASS service & misc. repairs. They performed an injector-balance test and here's the results.
#1 = 99%
#2 = 102%
#3 = 100%
#4 = 111%
#5 = 99%
#6 = 89%
Does this seem 'typical' for reman BBI's with 50'k miles on them?

2 years ago I had a solenoid-failure on one injector with 30k miles on it, and shipped it off to BBI for repairs & rebalancing and the truck ran fine after installing the repaired injector.

Recently I've detected a very slight 'stumble' at idle, which is why I had the shop perform a 'balance-test'.

The 5.9 was rebuilt 5 years ago at 225k miles and now has 275k milles on it.
I run FASS dual-filtration, buy only top-tier diesel fuel.
Mostly city-driving with regular shop-service intervals.
Thoughts?

 

[Ozymandias]

No need to worry, everytime you repeat that test it will show different.
Mine does hover around also.
I do that test routinely when I have AutoEnginuity connected on my truck and matching the parameters needed to do the test.

I recommend to run a cleaner, in my case Cummins approved Powerservice every 10k or so. I have significantly less smoke every time I do that.

 

[Axekicker]

Whew!
I've been running Archoil 6400 & 6500 for the past 10 years...but I do have some 'haze' because of the .5 BBI's
I'll put some 'Powerservice' in the tank at the next fill-up to see if it has any affect on the 'haze'. (thanks Oz!)

 

[cerberusiam]

You have to run the contribution test with the engine fully warmed up and the cylinder temps as high as possible to get a solid reading, then, run it twice the same way to get a consistent reading. Have run it on the road with as heavy a load as possible, pulled over and run tests to get good consistency.

Where that is not possible run it lower gears with as much rpm and load as possible then into the shop and test ASAP. Letting it idle for 5 minutes before testing will skew results, cools cylinders down too much.

Line the results up by firing order a better idea what is happening. Based on those numbers #6 has an issue delivering requested fueling and the following 2 are trying to adjust. I have seen a couple weird things happen with injectors where the pintle seat just fails for no discernible reason. Sent them back to Martin and all he could find bad was pintle seat. Added new parts and adjusted the injector and all was good. Worth sending him email and data and see what he thinks.

#1 = 99%
#5 = 99%
#3 = 100%
#6 = 89%
#2 = 102%
#4 = 111%

 

[Axekicker]

Yeah.....I sent the same info to Martin and he said to pull all 6 and send them back to him. That's a full month without my truck so I think I'll purchase a new of new BBI .1's and install them and then send him the remans to try and figure out whats going on....then I'll keep them as back-ups.

 

[Axekicker]

And...thanks for the test-info Cerb. I'll talk to the diesel shop about 'how' they perform their injector balance tests. I'm sure they're not doing what you suggest and obviously it's going to skew the results. I just sent an order to Martin for new .1's and after they're installed I'm sending the remains back for 'recon'. I'll let you (all) know what the results are when I get the remans back from BBI.

 

[cerberusiam]

I get it, hard to pull the full set of injectors and send them in when you need the truck. I have a crappy set of Bosch stock remans that we use when we have to send sets in for adjustment. I understand why Martin wants the set so he can see any potential drift in the performance so keep a crappy set around for those situations.

 

[JKosten]

Random question: How many miles on the engine and when was the last valve adjustment? I noticed with high mileage on my truck that I had a few cylinders at numbers like that, and found the valves were out of adjustment. After adjustment they were much closer.

The ECM can only look at the data it reads from crank and camshaft sensors, so it assumes that that valves are flowing the proper amount of air in/out.

 

[Axekicker]

Random question: How many miles on the engine and when was the last valve adjustment? I noticed with high mileage on my truck that I had a few cylinders at numbers like that, and found the valves were out of adjustment. After adjustment they were much closer.

The ECM can only look at the data it reads from crank and camshaft sensors, so it assumes that that valves are flowing the proper amount of air in/out.

The 5.9 was rebuilt 5 years ago at 225k miles and now has 275k miles on it.
When I hit 325k I'll have valve-lash checked & adjusted as needed.
I just got the truck back from Diesel Specialists (in Vegas) after they installed new BBI .1's and it runs baby-butt smooth now. No more 'miss' like it had before the injector swap last week.
I'm sending the BBI.5 remans back to Martin at BBI for evaluation and repairs as needed, and then I'll keep them for backups.
Smokes less now to.

 

[AH64ID]

BBi 0.5’s are hazy, every set I’ve worked with. I am a huge BBi fan, but don’t recommend the .5’s.

What specific filters are on your FASS? Some are better than stock, and some aren’t.

At 50K on a rebuild I would have the valves adjusted. 100K is too long, IMO and prefer to check them sooner on new motors. They have always needed adjusted back to the exact spec.

 

[Rowdy Dalton]

Great, just days after I ordered a set of new BBI .5's.
I thought these were supposed to be the Gold Standard of injectors?

 

[AH64ID]

Great, just days after I ordered a set of new BBI .5's.
I thought these were supposed to be the Gold Standard of injectors?

BBi is, but for some reason the .5’s are hazy.

 

[promisedland]

For what's it's worth, I just swapped my stage-.5 2005 type BBI's for stage-1 2003 type. Much better haze & smoke control. In my 2004.5 5.9.

 

[tjm]

wont stage 1's create more smoke with stock turbo? and higher EGTs?

 

[AH64ID]

wont stage 1's create more smoke with stock turbo? and higher EGTs?

Thru their design they create less smoke, but can create higher EGTs depending on the tuning.

 

[tjm]

Thru their design they create less smoke, but can create higher EGTs depending on the tuning.

So Martin says the 0.5s give about an extra 60hp with lower EGTs. what is this haze you speak about John and is it bad?

I've been eyeing that extra 60hp because i could use it when hauling - getting on the high way quickly for instance. And I have a transmission that can handle it now.

 

[AH64ID]

So Martin says the 0.5s give about an extra 60hp with lower EGTs. what is this haze you speak about John and is it bad?

I've been eyeing that extra 60hp because i could use it when hauling - getting on the high way quickly for instance. And I have a transmission that can handle it now.

Stage 0.5's have the same nozzle and flow rate that 1.0's do, but they injectors open/close faster so they don't end up flowing as much. That design has an effect on the pilot injection, IMO, and that creates a low load haze. I've been able to tune around it some what, but as @promisedland can confirm it's not gone. I've read many similar reports about 0.5's hazing.

I would look into tuning for a little power bump, and if you really want new injectors Stage 1's with custom tuning that uses less duration than stock will give you the best power bump and cleanest burn. Less duration may sound like a step backwards, but I ran ~80% of stock duration with Stage 1's and made 415 rwhp on my tow tune.

 

[tjm]

Stage 0.5's have the same nozzle and flow rate that 1.0's do, but they injectors open/close faster so they don't end up flowing as much. That design has an effect on the pilot injection, IMO, and that creates a low load haze. I've been able to tune around it some what, but as @promisedland can confirm it's not gone. I've read many similar reports about 0.5's hazing.

I would look into tuning for a little power bump, and if you really want new injectors Stage 1's with custom tuning that uses less duration than stock will give you the best power bump and cleanest burn. Less duration may sound like a step backwards, but I ran ~80% of stock duration with Stage 1's and made 415 rwhp on my tow tune.

Thanks John, So effectively your making a bbi stage 0.8

I have one cylinder at 93%, ran the contribution test per @cerberusiam guidance (at operating temp wasnt hauling, and pulled over to take 2 readings) so Im thinking a 2025 project sometime.

 

[AH64ID]

Thanks John, So effectively your making a bbi stage 0.8

Not really. The flown rate is what allows for the shorter duration, and the shorter duration allows for a quicker more efficient injection event and combustion.