BD Plug n Power or Edge EZ???

[Crazy Horse]

After having a BD Plug n Power on my 2000 dually I was really satisfied with it's performance. Now on my 2002 I'm reading about the Edge EZ and it looks like it may perform equally as well. The question is has anyone out there had both of these on the same truck? And the big question is: what noticable differences have you seen? About the only thing I see different is the splice in points. With the Edge you don't break the "Void" sticker.

 

[Briar Hopper]

The Van Aaken (BD Plug 'n Play ) brought the EGT's 200 degrees lower on my truck than the EZ Edge did. It also seems to fuel down lower in the RPM band, giving me faster spool up. Just my personal observations on one truck, my own.

If y'all see any Van Aakens getting price-dumped on Ebay, y'all let me know, so I can buy a bunch.

 

[EricBu12]

I bought an old BD Van Atkin box on E-bay for $167 I think I stole it. I get 3 MPG more now

 

[Big P]

Brian is right! I just went from BD's version of the VA box over to an Edge Comp. Without the pump wire hooked up, working like an EZ, it has a little less power down low.

 

[LSMITH]

I have run both extensively. While I did not see the EGT difference as large as Briar I did see it 75* or so lower and LOTS more low end power. I was not happy with the EZ after having a VA, and am back running the VA. Both VA's have been about +1. 5 MPG over the EZ as well. I have about 40K miles with a VA and about 15K miles with the EZ.



The other thing is the EZ made the engine a LOT louder, it just hammered with the EZ. With the VA it is quieter than stock.



I would not consider another EZ, but I would like to try the DD version of the EZ.

 

[Cummins Cowboy]

So let me get this straight. Does the VA box splice the pump wire or does it hook up similiar to the EZ. I thought the EZ was also a timing box, shouldn't the ability to change the timing give better mileage especially on the highway. Also if one finds a VA box that fits a '98 or '99 is it possible to hook up to an '02 and if so what is involved in doing so.

 

[LBTRS]

Does the BD version come with a boost elbow and module or is it just a fueling box? Do I need a tap the pump wire or does it hook up the same as the EZ? I seem to remember you needed to plug into the pump with the BD box, is that correct?

 

[LSMITH]

The VA hooks up to the back of the injection pump. It does not pierce the wire. The newest models have a boost model integrated, and come with an elbow, but the older ones most all of us have do not have a boost module. Most of us use a seperate boost module that can be bought new for $150 or less and used for $75 or so.



The VA DOES timing as well, and add fuel. The EZ adds timing (more IMO) and fuel. Same same.



The VA is the same for all of the ETC engines as far as I know. I know of people that run the ETC model on the ETH and love it, but I recall a ETH model of the VA being marketed. I really don't know if there is any difference in them or not.

 

[Crazy Horse]

Thanks for the input. The VA sounds like the way to go again. This may be a dumb question but what is difference between the ETC and the ETH?

 

[LBTRS]

Crazy Horse,



ETC is the standard Cummins that comes with the auto or 5 speed. ETH is the High Output Cummins that comes with the 6 speed. Those are the order codes used when ordering a truck to specify which motor is being ordered.

 

[Crazy Horse]

Thanks Ray.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Are some of you saying there is a DIFFERENT model EZ/Comp for the ETC/ETH Cummins? There is no reference to that on the Comp box I recently bought and installed on my '02 ETH-DEE, nor was I asked what engine version I had when ordering... A quick look on Edge's web page made no mention of separate versions either - tho' it makes sense that there WOULD be potentially different software to more properly address various engine performance differences...



I have an Email in to Edge on the subjest - we'll see what they have to say - any input from users here would be welcome as well...

 

[LSMITH]

Gary, if you are referring to my post I was talking about the VA.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

LSmith - that's sorta what I thought - but if *one* outfit makes specific boxes for ETC and ETH engines, makes me curious if that might also be an issue of some sort with the Edge Comp and similar - especially when I have learned that the neat dyno graph Edge posts on their web page for the Comp for an ETC looks very impressive - but THEN I learn that same box on an ETH is WELL down in comparison to what the ETC will do - which is undoubtedly WHY Edge uses the ETC for their example...



BUT, if SPECIFIC design software IS or becomes available to in some way erase at least PART of the difference, *I* sure wanna know about it!

 

[LSMITH]

Get some injectors Gary, only thing you can do that is reasonable to even things out. Your ETH will respond "more" to injectors than the ETC, by a lot. The ETH comes with smaller injectors than the ETC, so a 50 HP gain on my truck will likely be 70 on yours for example.



I just drove a friends ETH with the EZ and 275 injectors. I can't say enough about how nice it was. Great power, low EGT, and just smooth power. If I were to buy an ETH I would be perfectly happy with his power, maybe some DD1's I have significantly more power than he does, but my auto transmission squanders a lot and his 6 speed uses it beautifully making it more pleasant to drive.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

The suggestions about needing a better injector pump - or bigger injectors on the ETH sorta puzzle me... With the Comp on the higher ranges, I can get observable smoke pretty much thruout the RPM range - even with 32 psi boost - so WHAT would even MORE fuel going up in smoke do to generate MORE power? Is it because the smaller ETH injector are squirting more fuel over a longer period of time, and not being properly combusted?

 

[LSMITH]

The smoke you see at high boost and rpm has nothing to do with your injectors, rather it is the comp. Bigger injectors will simply make the smoke worse on the top levels. It adds DURATION to the injection cycle, the ez part adds a little timing and a tad bit of fuel. It is adding fuel to the fire after combustion has started and the piston is dropping in the cylinder. There is not enough time for the fuel that is left left to burn, along with dropping cylinder pressures and oxygen content. As I am sure you know there is an optimum time in the stroke of the piston to inject the fuel to get the most power and efficiency out of that fuel charge. The comp is not where you get it. The whiz bang wire tap boxes just add duration to the injection cycle, with reference to boost pressure. The high EGT is atttibutable to the longer injection time, it cannot burn all the way so the heat goes out the mainfold. Temps sustained in the cylinder are also higher.



The wire tap boxes make power, and lots of it. They do what they are supposed to do. Bigger injectors will get the fuel in faster, so it has more time to attain a complete burn, and will make more HP for the given fuel charge. EGT will also be lower for a given power level with injectors than they would be for a wire tap box.



Whoever told you that your injection pump is inferior is wrong. There is nothing wrong with your pump, nothing. The ETH injection pump has made over 450 HP, and seems to hit the limit on #2 alone at about the same point as the ETC pump. For accurate detailed info on what the ETH vs ETC pump are capable of I would email or PM CUMMNSTRKN, he would know.



32 psi of boost is rather low for an ETH with a comp on the mid to upper levels, most seem to make 33-35 with just an EZ?

 

[bigbrassmonkey]

I wouldn't buy another BD product again EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER



I got the torqloc-----it tore the hell out of my transmission



I got the autoloc, it caused me to have it towed, and damn idiots at bd wont return my emails



hows that for customer service :-{}

 

[hammersley]

Boost Elbo

LSMITH - help educate me on some of your info... . You said "... . The newest models have a boost model integrated... . " How can you tell which VA you have? Also, help me with the "elbo?" What is this and how does a modified one function? I have a VA and nothing else as yet. I know I need guages, and am about to do that - only through the Blue Chip Wizard Fuel Management System (since it has built in guages). I now have 108,000 on my 01 and am ready to get more serious. My transmission works great but I know I'm about to go get an upgrade from BK. I'm thinking of DD II's, and maybe a turbo upgrade from Piers when I'm at BK's. Where to stop - Oh the Pocketbook will tell me that. Of the items I mentioned, except the transmission, which ones would be the most bang for the buck? Let's be serious, if I do all this. will I notice, really notice a difference, or is it a situation that I think I notice a difference?

 

[LSMITH]

hammersley, you have the older VA. The newest ones have wiring that connects on the MAP sensor as well as the injection pump. The FMS that you are buying will have the boost module built in and an elbow so you don't need to do anything else. The boost module fools the ECM into thinking that boost is under 20 PSI or so, the elbow bleeds wastegate actuator pressure to let boost build over stock levels. The FMS functions like the comp for all practical purposes where adding fuel is concerned. I would add all of the power I want to use every day with injectors, and DD2's will do nicely. The FMS will add massive amounts of power for playing as well. If you intend to run the FMS in the mid to upper levels that turbo you want will be needed. If you get the DTT be SURE you tell them what your plans are and what the mods will be so they can set it up for you. The NWBomers are a great bunch and can help with the selection of mods and installation as well. LOTS of those guys have been there and done that, a great resource.