Bell Housing Identification

[DonTX]

Does anyone know if the lst Gen trucks use an SAE 3 bell housing?

 

[RBergman]

don

i gont think so but i do have some pictures if that would help

of the housing and adapter

 

[JLEONARD]

Don't know about trucks, but SAE #3 is standard for the marine version.

Jay

 

[DonTX]

Generally speaking, the 5. 9 used a 2 or a 3, but in a Dodge truck I am not sure, might be some off beat MOPAR pattern. IF a 3, many Allison transmissions are a bolt in option. Here is a link to sizes if someone has one loose to measure: http://www.foleyengines.com/DDSK/DrDieselShopKink21.html

 

[1stgen4evr]

The answer to your questioon is NO. All the Dodge applications are specific to a transmission. The engine block itself is configured the same but the various adapters allow it to be used in hundreds of applications from bulldozers to pickup trucks (and your motor home). I think perhaps the Ford/Cummins ton and a half and two ton trucks have that bell housing along with most power unit applications. The SAE housings generally have holes and side pads for mounting the engine at the bellhousing.



James

 

[DonTX]

Sure, I understand. My motorhome for instance has an SAE 3 bell housing, which allows a half dozen or so transmissions to be bolted up to it, but you are saying that to use an Allison transmission in a Dodge truck, one would need to not only acquire the transmission, but also a SAE 2 or 3 bell housing, since the trucks come with a non-sae transmission and bell housing, and you cannot for instance even change a 727 to a 518 without another bell housing. Correct?.

 

[1stgen4evr]

I am not certain about the 727 to 518. There are clear similarities with the first automatics. I do know that later trannys with lock up converters will not work with the 518 adapter. The alison won't work for several reasons without some serious mods.



James

 

[DonTX]

With an SAE 3 bell housing (like mine on the motorhome, and readily available), one could use an Allison 1000, 2200, or 2400 for instance by easy bolt in, or with an SAE 2 an Allison MT643 for example. I guess I am surprised this is not routinely done as many on this forum seem to be hauling heavier loads than the original trannies seem to be up to, gaining lockup torque converters, more gears, and overdrives. It sure seems to me to be the first needed change to the 93 one ton dually I am considering with the 518. Comments?

 

[1stgen4evr]

There simply isn't room under there for the adapter and the Allison without significant heat and beat and the later transmission will go with modest fitting. And unless you go with strong HP mods, the Getrag and 518 will get the job done. I have 500k on a getrag and 36ok on a 518. Now I completey agree, the allison would be a nice addition, just not worth the coin in my opinion. If I can find one (Allison) cheap, I would think about that for the crew cab. I want to lift the cab a bit anyway. It is also possible that Cummins has the adapter for an allison that would be a tight clean fit. There is a rep at Cummins south in Atlanta that can answer that question.



James

 

[MMiller]

A 518 is nothing more then a 727 with an OD unit. There should be no changes in mountings of these two trannies.



I agree with James, that the getrag and the autos with a little maintence will stand up in a Dodge truck. IMHO an auto transmission's life is directly related to the nut behind the wheel.



Michael

 

[cerberusiam]

 I guess I am surprised this is not routinely done as many on this forum seem to be hauling heavier loads

It has been done and it's just a bit expensive. The larger Allisons just won't fit without major modifications to the cab floor and then you have a problem mating a transfer case in the 4x4 units. The 1000 series will fit but its not up to the task without some modifications either, there is the t-case problem again, and you must source and use the computer controls that came with the trans. The older Allys are all non-lockup, expensive to rebuild, and not many performace parts available.



The 518/618/47RE/48RE transmissions can be built up to reliably handle well over 500 HP and 25-30k GCVW and it is a bolt in unit. Obviously 4 gears as opposed to 6 when you are towing heavy is a bit of loss but the TQ of the Cummins will minimize the that impact. At the end of the day its just a lot easier to build a good unit than it is swapping something else that just doesn't fit quite right.

 

[DonTX]

Thanks for the imput guys, most interesting. I had, apparently without correctness, become of the opinion that the original Dodge lst Gens had lots of transmission troubles, apparently that is not so.

This was further made a concern since the 93 dually I am in a process of buying, has the 518 non lockup converter, which is not a satisfactory arrangement for my intended use. I guess it would be more proper to just upgrade to a 518 WITH a lockup, is that correct?

 

[boatpuller]

Although you give up a little economy with the non-lockup converter, I think that the Dodge trannies got their bad name when they came out with the lock up converter, the lock up would slip and then the fibers would get into the rest of the transmission and destroy it. An early non-lock up transmission that has the recommended service and isn't overheated will last a long long time behind a Cummins. The other thing is that I have heard that the overdrive assembly likes a synthetic lube to make the bearings last longer. Personally I would stick with the 518 and just get a tighter torqueconverter and a valve body to go with it. Actually that's what I have, a DTT trans and torque converter, the lock up just didn't seem that important to me, I still get 20MPG on the highway.

Just a couple thoughts.



Good luck,

Caleb

 

[cerberusiam]

There is very little difference in cost between a built 518 and a built 618. If you are going to spend the dollars it makes sense to get the 618.



FWIW, I had 280k on the 518 in my 92 when I swapped it. It still worked fine but was starting to get some noise in the OD. We also have a 96 with over 200k that is used to tow concrete forms and bobcat all over for work and it is still working great. A lot depends on use, service, and the driver.

 

[cojhl2]

One reason one may want a lockup TC is if you think you should have an Exhaust Brake.

 

[1stgen4evr]

I don't know the particulars of what the difference in a 518 with lockup and a 618 amount to but I think it would be the solonoid control vs the more hydraulic oriented control of the 518. I drive a 97 some and it has the lockup converter. I am very dissatisfied with the way the computer functions in regard to OD and lockup. This truck has 280k miles and I think there are issues of malfunction so can't say that it is doing as it should. I can say that the lockup delivers better mileage than the standard 518. From what I have read on the forum, the 518 really built by the folks that know them is one tough hombre.



James

 

[DonTX]

Words from a Transmission Rebuilder

I had asked a rebuilder about a rebuilt 518 or 618 with a lockup torque converter to replace the non locking 518 on a 93. Here is his answer, do you think he is correct? Are lockups considered such a failure?



"The A618 will not bolt to the engine in your truck.



The reason your truck did (not) come with a lock up clutch was it did not last.



Any attempt to replace your non-lock up system if so equipped would result in failure



We look forward to being of service to you



Bill Anthony

RoadMaster Transmission Service, Inc.

 

[cerberusiam]

Any attempt to replace your non-lock up system if so equipped would result in failure

In the immortal words of Bugs Bunny "What a maroon!!". :-laf :-laf



You might ask him why every Dodge truck from Aug 1993 to date with a Cummins in it has a lockup converter. If you get the "deer in the head lights" look, run don't walk out the door.



Every statement he has made in that list is soooo wrong. Even the one about serving you.



Ok, done beating up the transmission guy.

 

[TKingsbury]

He is right about one thing (kinda). It will not bolt straight up without changing the block adapter, starter and misc crap. Maybe the lockup converters last in the newer trucks because they are more aerodynamic

Travis. .

 

[Demons_Ram]

Don,

There's plenty of good info from this transmission place up in Bossier City, La. I'm sure they can accurately answer any other questions you have about the 518/ 618 lockup conversion.



http://www.transmissioncenter.net/alto_3.htm



Quote from their webpage;



"NOTE: Use a lock-up type torque converter if possible, this could get you as much as 5% better gas mileage and the transmission will run much cooler. Running cooler will make the transmission last longer. "