Best Transmission Mods?

[Dieselnerd]

My vote goes to Dave Goerend. Big shop in a tiny town in NE Iowa. If you could see the test equipment that he uses to develop his converters and also to develop standards to measure against, you would be amazed. Dave asks: "When someone says they have a certain percent efficiency, what does that mean? What horsepower are they using? What RPM? How much load?" Dave has developed charts and specifications on his converters that can be compared to others using the same criteria and until everyone measures against the same criteria, "Best" is merely a marketing term. He doesn't claim to be the best but he might be. I know that measured by the "seat of my pants" he has a great TC and VB. I might say the same if I had a different TC that felt good too but unless measured against the same criteria you can't really tell just by how it feels. Mine might feel better just because it matches my load or horsepower. We all have our opinions and I'm sure fans of other TC's will express theirs. For you Midwest members, it's well worth a trip to his shop. If you want a BD or DTT or whatever installed, Dave will do that too. He will do whatever you want and doesn't hype his product at all. That being said, I thought I would "hype it" myself because it is a good product and I really like mine. One other thing, you absolutely will not get more bang for your buck!

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Ron

'96 Club Cab 2500 4x4, 4:10LS, Camper/Tow package, 3500 brake cyls. , Goerend modified Automatic, TST 230/605, Cat Test Pipe, Cummins Chrome, Mag-Hytec rear and trans covers, Boost, Pyro and trans gauges, Optima Red Tops, Rancho 9000's, All black. Tow 14k HitchHiker triple glide 5th Wheel. Also use 9. 5' Lance camper. NRA Life Member. KDP 61,000 NM-WT

 

[BigYellowIron]

I agree!
Adam

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"POWERSTROKE THIS"
Adam Harman
95 auto red and white #6 tst , eagle alluminum wheels. Stright pipe, Goerend Converter, vb work, 15 degrees timming,ramsey 8000# rear mount winch. Still BOMBING

 

[Dieselnerd]

I've been getting a lot of emails asking me specifics about Dave Goerend's transmission work. Some have been very surprised at how reasonable his costs are. If it was just price it would be one thing but the performance is equally surprising. Since I've returned home I've been running my truck through it's paces and believe me it's a new truck! BTW Dave put my truck on his dyno before I left, my TST 230 plate made 240 HP at the rear wheels and it's in the stock position. That surprised me too.

 

[Bill Kondolay]

Dieselnerd,

I am very glad to see you are happy with your purchase and with your price.

Dave and I have had discussions in the past and we did concur our products were in different leagues and that there is a market for each.

Dave's milled stator converter is definately a more ecnomical alternative for some, and as long as the consumer understands its limitations and does not unrealistically expect the performance or reliability of the steel stator converter, no harm no foul.

Ultimately it is all about educating the diesel ram owners, so they are aware of what they are buying and the major differences between the two,and how to avoid the transmission and tc pitfalls surrounding the milled stator converters they have been experiencing in diesel industry to date.

Again, congratulations on your purchase,i am going to offer you a piece of advice i hope you take,i do realize you are not my customer but i hope you will consider my words as a transmission builder first, do not use a mystery switch or torque loc for excelleration purposes on Daves or any converter,you wont be doing Dave or you any favors and you will damage your tc and transmission.

Bill Kondolay
Diesel Transmission Technology

 

[Dieselnerd]

Bill, you mentioned performance and reliability. I can't really compare the performance of Dave's converter to yours since I have never driven one with a DTT. I do say that I would find it hard to find a better one than Dave's based on the seat of my pants. I guess you could say that about any converter since we don't have a group of trucks with equal power and different converters to test drive. I am concerned about your mention of reliability. Dave warranties his converters for 5 years or 50,000 miles and he told me his stator has never failed. BTW, they look nothing like the milled stators pictured in your website. In fact they resemble yours except the fins are not as deep. I agree with you on the manual lockup switch too. They can really shorten the clutch life. It's definitely not needed for acceleration with my new converter since there is only about a 300 RPM drop when it locks up at WOT. I think the clutch will live a long time now.

[This message has been edited by Dieselnerd (edited 06-01-2001). ]

 

[Mule]

Dieselnerd One thing I see you forgot to mention was a dual lining converter I know for a fact that he has had them and has been working with them for over a year so its not some latest and greatest that just came out

 

[Dieselnerd]

Yes Mule, Dave did do experiments with dual lining and he showed me a bunch he had made up. He says the problem is that with equal line pressures, the dual slips at the same torque as the single. Based on those experiments he dropped the idea. I think the BD dual lining will suffer from the same problem but it "sounds good" and some will buy it for that reason.

 

[Bill Kondolay]

Dieselnerd,

As i mentioned above, i am glad you happy with your purchase, Dave and I have had battles on milled stators before, so do a search under his name, you will find he does mill the stator, and believe me he does know there is a difference.

You mentioned you have never driven a truck with the one of our setups, so i understand where you are comming from, you cant possibly compare the two because there is no comparison. As for warranty, to me it is a piece of paper, only as good as the man standing behind it, i deal with new customers all the time, still carrying warranties from other companies that have been denied.

20% of our business comes from guys with milled stators, who once believed as you do.

If you have the opportunity to go to Muncie Indiana, June 9 & 10 , there will be a great many trucks there with steel stators in them,
milled stators have been around for a long time, it is nothing new, some angles look different , they are still milled based off the oem setting. There is over 50 companines across N. America selling similar converters for under 350. 00 and that is a fair price for what the consumer is getting.

Its the guys paying the 700,900,1100 for these milled stators that are getting conned.

As for the dual clutch lining , Dave and i also battled that issue, i am glad to see he admits he was wrong and it was not possible to force the tc to stay locked up under hard excelleration. I hope not too many believed all of Daves propaganda back then.

Its not bad reading, do a search, and look past the mudslinging. If you know what you are looking for the technical information or lack of is there for all to see.

At the end of the day, its your word guys are reading about and that is what is important. Were it me, i would at least want to know the difference.

Bill Kondolay
Diesel Transmission Technology

 

[Dieselnerd]

Bill, I've got an idea. Why don't you loan Dave one of your stators to put in a converter and try on his testing machine? I trust Dave's honesty in showing all of us just how much or how little difference there actually is. I know if yours was a much better performer he would not hesitate to say so. I know Dave personally and he does not have a big ego. He's a real "gearhead" like most of us and is only interested in improving performance. He speaks well of your design and said he really would like to try one under his test conditions. Unless they can both be tested under the same exact conditions any statements concerning relative efficiency are just that, "statements". He has a big block engine in a stand to drive the transmission with a big magnetic brake on it and exact performance at various RPM's and loads can be easily determined. What do you think Bill?

 

[Mopar-muscle]

Originally posted by Dieselnerd:
with my new converter since there is only about a 300 RPM drop when it locks up at WOT. I think the clutch will live a long time now.

dieselnerd , you asked for facts , you put it right up here ... 300 RPM drop , the factory convertor has about a 400 rpm drop . my DTT 91% had about a 100-125 rpm drop and my 93% drops less than 100 rpm . this is the efficency , the closer to 0 rpm drop . if my TC had no lockup clutch in it at all it really wouldn't bother me one bit . Dave G. may have a good TC compared to other milled stators but comparing it to a steel stator is a farce , there is no comparision . if Dave really wanted to test one he would just get it thru a back door like other vendors TC vendors have done , he already knows what he will find out if he tests them side by side .

 

[Gary C]

I am on my third transmission, I would have been on my second if I had used the correct stuff from the start. DTT

DD put in the DTT Smart controller and I am way frigging pleased the way that it operates. It unlocks the TC at half throttle and and locks under braking with down shifting. A great product and again I am way happy.

Save a nickel and you will pay a dime.

Hope you do it correctly the first time. I didn't.

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2001. 5 2500 QuadCab SLT, Auto, 3. 54 Anti-Spin Axle, 4X2, SWB, White/Tan, Stockland Camper, Interior kit, Debadged, Custom CUMMINS Logo Sticker, Front Spoiler, Sport Tail Lenses, Valentine One, SPA Gauges Pillar Mount, Magtech transmission Pan and Rearend Cover, HX 40 and 16cm turbo, DD2's, 4 inch exhaust and down pipe with two muffles from DD, Diesel Dynamics' New Ultimate Power Module, Psychotty Air Box, DDT 91 TQ and VB, DTT Smart Controller, transmission Blueprinted by DD, 450+ HP/930+ftlb.
www.ProwlerOnline.com
View my Cummins Sticker

 

[Dieselnerd]

Gary, I'm only looking for facts, not testimonials. I know everyone loves their DTT and I am not knocking it in the least. I am only interested in some real comparison figures and not trying to upset anyone. I for one would not be the least upset if Bill's were the winner. It would help everyone to make their choices based on reality and not love of the product or the person behind it. Bill and Dave are both very honest businessmen from what I can tell.

 

[Dieselnerd]

MOPAR: 400 Rpm drop for a stock converter? 100- 125 or less with a DTT? Give me a break. Under what conditions? My new TC only drops about 50 Rpm when locking up with just the truck most of the time. Here are my conditions, accelerating while towing my 14K fifth wheel, stock dropped 800-1000 when locking up, Goerend about 325. I don't believe there is a TC that will only drop 100 Rpm when locking up during heavy towing conditions unless you are backing off when it locks up.

 

[Extreme1]

I feel compelled to ad my $.02

Unfortunately, comparing RPM drop under lock-up isn't a really good comparison between two different TC's on different vehicles.



The reason why is illustrated by Dieselnerd's last post.



My lockup drop from 600-700 at WOT to 250-300. Engine power output, load being accellerated, gear ratio and tire size all play an important part in this comparison. Also realize that even in the same vehicle, it only compares at the RPM right before lockup.



A better comparison would be on a dyno with comparison across the full operating RPM. Bill K. described on another thread about a customer who, upon getting his trans modified by them, went out in the parking lot and climbed some ramps for a while. His comparison mode is at the other end of the scale from the lockup drop comparison.



Another thing to consider: Both the vendors mentioned so far in this thread have exemplary customer service reputations. Both guys will take the time to answer your questions and help you solve a problem. Opposite of what I got from Transgo and BD!!! Dave G. spent literally hours on the phone, shipped me parts to swap to upgrade my shift kit from JR to DIESEL status and then followed up on a couple of occasions to see how things were working. All without expectation of compensation. Truely first class.



Bill, the testimonials on this board speak volumes (literally) about your customer service. Also first class.



I think it is more important to notice who's customers AREN'T posting here!



I think that until the convertors are compared side by side on a dyno, efficiency comparisons are going to be more opinion than fact. I would like to see the results. It would help others weigh the cost vs benefit ratio prior to purchase. Although this is not an issue for some, I would guess that most people driving vehicles more than a couple years old would give it some consideration.

 

[tlippy]

I'm going to buy from Bill K when the time comes. I have never heard of a more egotistical, bull-headed, braggart, Cannuk in my life. And that kind of guy has to have the best product in the world!!!!!!!!!! Go gettUm Bill! C U at Timberline, I hope.

 

[Bob Wagner]

Who Bill ???

Originally posted by tlippy

I'm going to buy from Bill K when the time comes. I have never heard of a more egotistical, bull-headed, braggart, Cannuk in my life.

Plus Bill is one He!! of a nice guy too

 

[Dieselnerd]

Thanks for all of the replies guys! It is interesting that we never heard from any users except DTT and Goerend. Doesn't anyone else feel any passion about their transmission mods? Dave and Bill come from two very different viewpoints on many transmission issues but they are both very sincere and really know their stuff. Thanks to both for their willingness to share their knowledge. tlippy: I know a lot of Canadians and most of them are very egotistical. It doesn't take much to get them excited and jumping up and down.

 

[MGire]

Question for Bill & Dave. I believe that steel TC's are more efficient than milled stator TC's, but would Dave's TC be an acceptable alternative to the DTT TC for those who are on a more restricted budget and are only mildly bombed say in the 230 - 275 hp range. If so why? If not why not?

 

[danandamy]

Originally posted by Dieselnerd

Thanks for all of the replies guys! It is interesting that we never heard from any users except DTT and Goerend. Doesn't anyone else feel any passion about their transmission mods?

Does speak volumes, doesn't it? Like Extreem 1 said, didja notice who's customer's AREN'T posting here?

 

[Dieselnerd]

MGire: I don't know if Bill is going to answer or not but I know Dave left on a fishing trip today and he won't be back for a week. Dave did say at one time in a post that he feels his TC is good for up to about 350 HP. He thought that the average user seldom exceeded that amount. He did show me a small pile of broken input shafts from higher horsepower usage. I think what he was trying to say was that over 350 HP and you have to worry about more than just the TC alone. I don't think he would argue that steel isn't stronger than aluminum and the guys running 400+ HP need something very strong to keep it together. I don't know if anyone is towing heavy loads with very high HP. I think that would be a formula for failure.