Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Big Smoke on startup after long trip

[CORed]

Any help / suggestions from the great TDR members on this one?



Here's the story - as brief as I can make it.



Took a 350 mile trip this past Easter weekend up to Wyoming. Everything went fine. Started the truck while I was up there and no smoke problems, never have much smoke. Couple days later, I drove the return trip (350 miles) back to Colorado. Everything ran fine. Ran about 80 mph the entire way except thru Denver. RPM's usually around 2200 for most of trip. When I got home Sunday evening, I let the truck idle 4-5 minutes after pulling into driveway before shutting it down to cool things off a bit.



The problem...

Got in the truck on Monday morning to go to work and turned the key and waited for the "wait to start" light to go out. It came on and went out in 1-2 seconds... usually takes much longer. Temp in garage was probably near 50 degrees or so. So I started it up. HUGE SMOKE starts rolling out of the tailpipe. At first I think, hey... this is kinda cool, but quickly dismiss the thought. While it is smoking, it seems to run quieter / smoother than normal. But when I blip the go-pedal, darker smoke comes out the tailpipe and it runs rough. So I shut it down. Somethin' ain't right.



Attempt to turn the key to the "on" position and the wait to start light comes on and goes out in 1-2 seconds max - not long enough so I try again. Back the key off and wait about 10 seconds. Then turn key to "on" position. The darn "wait to start" light stays on about 8-10 seconds as I would have expected the very first time. Once it goes out, I start it up and it sounds right... hardly any smoke, blip the throttle and no rough idle. Sounds loud like it normally does. All is well.



Drive to work, everything runs fine. Outside temp was over 60 degrees all day. When I start the truck after work again, I get the same thing. A very short "wait to start" light... so I try it again. Short "wait" AGAIN. So I decide to start it up anyway. It smokes like crazy again just like in the morning. Runs quieter at idle, but rough when the throttle is blipped. So I shut it down. Turn to "on" again and only get 1-2 second "wait to start" light. Try this 3-4 times with 5-10 seconds between each. This time the "wait to start" light NEVER gives me the 8-10+ second period so I figure... gotta get home regardless so I start it up. Smoke rolling all over the place. I drive about 1/4 mile (or less) and it clears up. Runs right, sounds right, power is normal. All seems well.



Today (Tuesday morning) same thing except after the first start I try, I end up shutting down again due to all the smoke. So I try again - turn key to "on" and I get a good 8-10 second "wait to start" light and then all is well.



So it seems that if I get a good, long, appropriate "wait to start" period, everything is good. I always got a long "wait to start" period before this trip. But now, I don't after the truck sits for awhile. Also, if the truck is started up 1-2 hours after it was running, it starts up just fine and no smoke.



Sorry this is sooooo long, but I wanted to give as much detail as possible. Of note, I am still under the 3/yr 36,000 mile warranty and can take it to the dealer, but want to have an idea before I go there. Also, there are NO mods on this truck AT ALL. Bone stock except for removing the snorkel about 2+ weeks ago. See sig.



Also, this was the first "long" trip I have taken in this truck since purchased 6 weeks ago. I was NOT towing anything... completely empty on the trip.



Any thoughts / suggestions?



Thanks VERY much in advance.



Steve

 

[EricBu12]

Sounds like your grid heaters are either going out or out all together. Sometimes it might be the relays or the wires in the heaters themselves.



Here is a thread on the subject



https://www.turbodieselregister.com...readid=65884&highlight=grid+heater+resistance

 

[CORed]

I'll have to check / watch for the behavior of the grid heaters then. Where can I test the resistance on each? I have a multi-meter, but are unsure of the grid heaters location or the wiring I should be checking. I'm totally new at Cummins ownership so there are certain things I haven't located yet.



I found. 3 ohms on another thread as to the # I should be looking for as far as resistance is concerned. Can anyone verify?



Also, if I must start it while it is smoking like a mosquito fogger, is it causing any long-term damage - assuming it seems to snap out of it after driving 1/4 mile or so?



If the grid heaters are gonners, looks like I'll be testing my bumper-to-bumper warranty for the first time.



Steve

 

[EricBu12]

I think that is an engine warranty thing, I don't know what the resistance is, I did a search on "grid heater resistance" and I gave you one of the threads, there were a whole lot more to look at... ... ... .



The running issue is just so the computer knows what to do for the engine, If it is black smoke, then it is just extra fuel, the only thing that will go south is the mileage untill you start it up when warm... ... .

 

[K_Arts]

Steve,



This actually sounds like a pretty easy diagnosis.



It sounds like to me that your truck is throwing you hints that it needs more fuel



Actually, I agree with the other guys, it sounds like your Grid Heaters, or maybe the relay is going south.



Kev

 

[CORed]

Thanks Kev!!





Maybe you're right. This could be a "trojan horse"... it wheels itself in as a "problem" when in reality... it's a free pass. The wife may be open to suggestion that I need new inJECTors to fix this smoking problem... yaa... that's the ticket!!! Unfortunately when they smoke more at WOT... I'll be toast myself.



I think I'm going to give it another couple mornings and see if it acts any different. If not, it's going to the dealer. May as well use the warranty before I AM the warranty.



Thanks guys for your suggestions. I'll post a follow-up when I have more info.



Steve

 

[merryman]

Steve



I had a very similiar experience with my '93, on an elk hunting trip to Montana. The truck did great on the 1100 mile trip there, but the next morning after ariving there, it smoked literally like some old coal burning locamotive. I drove it about a mile, shut it down for an hour and then drove ten miles--incredible black smoke. Then the truck sat for 10 days while we were hunting(A couple of the other hunters on the trip were driving Fords---they really rode me about my somke).

Ten days later, when we got back to the rigs and I started it, it fired right up and ran fine, but still had the unbelievable black smoke. I was about 80 miles from the nearest city that would have either a Dodge or a Cummins dealer , I decided to drive it there to get help.

About 20-40 miles into the trip, I suddenly noticed there was no more smoke, so I continued on the 1100 miles home. I drove the truck two more years and another 40K miles+-, and it never re-occured and never had any other problems.

I suspected something got stuck!! (how's that for a high tech. diagnosis?? :>)



Vaughn

Vaughn

 

[K_Arts]

Re: Thanks Kev!!

Originally posted by CORed





Maybe you're right. This could be a "trojan horse"... it wheels itself in as a "problem" when in reality... it's a free pass. The wife may be open to suggestion that I need new inJECTors to fix this smoking problem... yaa... that's the ticket!!! Unfortunately when they smoke more at WOT... I'll be toast myself.

Don't worry Steve, Whenever we put your gauges in, We'll let your wife drive my truck and show her how your truck is just starving for fuel I'll help with the convincing. You'll just have to stand back and agree with everything that I say LOL



Honestly though, in the morning if you have the wife present, why don't you have her turn the key over while you put a meter on the Grid heaters to see what kind of voltage you are seeing? This may be a starting point to see what the heck is goin on.



Kev

 

[TowPro]

I don't think its the actual grid heaters. I think if there bad you will set code and a CEL.



I feel what ever voltage that is running the grid heaters is also running the light (as long as your in key on, engine not running condition, because the grid heaters also work after the engine is running cold, but the wait to start don't come on after the engine is running. ).



Your light is not coming on as long as you think it should, this is telling me that your heaters are not cycling as long as they should be.



If you are fixing this yourself, I would look into what logic tells the ECM its cold enough to need the grid heaters. Somewhere is a temp sensor (maybe a combination of sensors) telling the ECM the current temp, and I bet its sending bad info to the ECM (garbage in, garbage out)

 

[Marco]

ECM or IAT sensor.

The ECM get's the air temp through the IAT sensor.

If the smoke you get is caused because the heathers are not cycling then or the IAT sensor is dirty/gone or it's the ECM.



Marco

 

[Sticks]

Start simple, check that all your connections are tight and clean. If needed, clean them up with some sandpaper or such before re connecting. Same with the battery terminals.



I just did a job a guys car that the stea. . dealer told him his alternator was shot, and it was going to cost him $600 to replace it. His lights were pulsing like a police car, bright, dim, bright, dim. Pulled both terminals on the battery and cleaned them up as well as the connections on the alternator, and cured the problem.

 

[CORed]

I'll check the IAT then too

Thanks for the suggestions... Marco / Sticks / etc...



I'll check and clean the IAT as soon as I have time and see if it does the same thing the next morning.



Funny thing is... after the first start with all the smoke and shut-down... if I wait about 10-15 seconds and then try again, the "wait to start" light comes on and stays on for the prescribed 10 seconds (usually). If I don't wait 10-15 seconds before tries... most times the light doesn't even come on AT ALL... not even for a second. This is what it did this morning again. But none of this is even consistent from morning to morning.



Still wondering just where the grid-heaters are in order to meter test them. Haven't seen any posts describing there location yet but plenty on the IAT.



This TDR site is great due to folks like you guys.



I'll keep ya posted.



Steve

 

[Marco]

Wait a moment!

You say NO wait to start engine light at all???

The CEL is also an indicator of the self test on power up of the ECM!



No CEL = Bad ECM!



No matter what happens the CEL HAS to come on for a couple seconds!!!



If I understood correct what you've said, well keep in mind that the ECM can leave you stranded anytime.



Marco

 

[CORed]

...exactly - no WTS at all - but only rarely!

I get a wait to start MOST of the time. It's just very rarely, after the initial start attempt that blows smoke all over, that I don't get the WTS on the first few retries unless I give 10+ seconds before each re-try.



I haven't noticed the CEL on while driving or staying on unusually long after startup. I assume the CEL is coming on when I turn the key to "on" though. I will pay closer attention to that light as well as the WTS next time I start it (probably in just a few minutes actually - work day is almost done).



Looks more and more like I will be taking it by the dealers to get this fixed. Hopefully won't take long and hopefully they fix it the FIRST time. Since it only happens when cold, that means doing nothing to the truck for hours and hoping to figure it out in just a couple start attempts. We all know this is a prime scenario for the "we were unable to duplicate the problem" bit, but I'll assume a positive experience until proven otherwise.



Steve

 

[Sticks]

Your grid heaters are underneath the "intake horn" where it bolts on top of your head, next to the forward drivers side of the valve cover.



EDIT - "next to", not "on" the valve cover. Oops, my bad.

 

[andrewkoperdak]

I recently noticed that my wait to start light was short cycling too. Then on the way home one afternoon I got a code that said something about a temperature mismatch. I also had the check engine light on. I hate that light and at the first opportunity I disconnected both batteries for about an hour while I putzed around the house. Came back and reconnected the battery terminals, turned on my key, got a normal long wait to light and have never had a problem since.

What is this all about you might ask. Well the power loss resets the computer modules on the truck. No harm is done doing it and it clears the codes that are actively held in the computer.



Hope something here was helpful,

Andy

 

[CORed]

Latest update...

Well, it has been a few days now since this problem occurred. Even though it happened about 2-3 days in a row, it hasn't done it since!! Everything is working fine.



It HAS been a little colder lately so maybe that has something to do with it, but I'm going to keep an eye on it as it warms up in the 60s and see if it happens.



Also, my check engine light only came on normally (during bulb check) at startup and never stayed on or came on when driving. I haven't checked any codes, but thought if the CEL came on abnormally, then you have codes to check, otherwise no codes. Just an assumption.



Anyway, all is good. Everytime I have start it in the past 2+ days, after several hours of sitting, the WTS light stays on about 10 seconds as normal and no smoke / rough running at all once started.



Thanks again for all your help on this one. I will still clean the IAT when I get a chance and update this thread if the problem shows up again. If it does, it will be a dealer trip.