Bilstein Shock Question (?)

[DwayneKelch]

Gentlemen, Ladies,



In my search to replace the OE shocks on my truck I have run into conflicting information concerning the Bilstein 5100s.



At the Bilstein website (which should be the authority) it appears the rear shock listed for my truck (2004. 5 Dodge/Cummins 2500 w/no additional lift) would be the BE5-6647-H5. However, I've also found on other websites, and through conversations with vendors, that the BE5-6647-H1 is recommended. So, my question is: which one is it, BE5-6647-H1 or BE5-6647-H5? Or, does it really matter?



The front shocks were simple because all the charts I found listed the same number. In fact, I've already installed them. It's been very difficult to track down a vendor who has the H1 or H5 in stock.



Any help in identifying the proper shock for my application, to include source, would be appreciated. Thanks.





Dwayne

 

[CDonaldson]

I wonder what the difference IS between the H-1 and the H-5? I am guessing it may be something like regular duty vrs heavy duty? My KORE HD Leveling kit came with the F4-BE5-6646-H-5's for the front of a 2006 so I am guessing that the H5's are the heavy duty ones plus there is a lift to the kit. I would like to put the Bilsteins on the rear also. I have added a pair of the Ride Rites in the back and am wondering if I should use the lift shocks in the rear? All these shock questions we all have with little to no answers, eh?



CD

 

[DwayneKelch]

After posting this thread, I couldn't let this question rest. Therefore, I called around until I got the answer I was looking for. ORW (offroad warehouse) was able to answer the question Oo.



It seems Bilstein will be replacing the 6647-H5 with the 6647-H1. Something to do with re-valving the shock. The 6647-H5s will work, but supposedly aren't the best for my application. I've searched high and low for the 6647-H1, but everyone I've contacted said "they're on back order". The waiting game begins.

I may have to install a set of Firestone air bags in the interim.



If the information I've received is in error, please let me know. Thanks.





Dwayne

 

[CDonaldson]

Hey Dwayne.



Did you ask him about using the 6647-H1's on the rear IF you had added the Ride Rites, or would the Ride Rite addition change your shock need? I guess I'll give them a call too.



CD

 

[JEvers]

I want to order these shocks from Geno's but want to be sure they fit first. He shows BE5-6681 for the front and BE5-6682 for the rears. Has anyone installed these on an '06 4x4?



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[Lorenz]

I have 2 pairs of the 6647-H1 for the rear in stock. Im sold out of the fronts for now. ORW is dead on with the explination. I have the same pricing as ORW as well. I'd post the price but... . Send me an email if your interested.

 

[JohnCooper]

I may have to install a set of Firestone air bags in the interim.

I don't quite understand why you would need to install air bags if you can't get the shocks right away. Air bags and shocks perform two completely different functions. The air bags, without changing any of your other springs, will only make the back of your truck ride stiffer and reduce the amount of sag when you put a load on the truck, their only function is to carry additional loads. If you have bad OEM shocks, it's likely that your ride quality will get worse. The function of the shocks is to control the speed that the springs can be compressed and the speed that they can rebound back to a neutral position.



It is important that the springs and the shocks are matched up to get good ride quality. The only difference between the H1 and H5 shock is probably just the valving on the shocks. Bilstein more than likely makes that same physical shock for many different vehicles, the only difference is the valving is different to match up with the different spring rates and weights of the vehicles.



What I have been tossing around is to remove my overload spring (if you could call that 1/2" bar of steel a spring) and adding a set of air bags that I could air up when I hook up the 5th wheel. My concern is getting a shock that works with and without the load. I understand Sage Carli (www.thecarlisuspension.com) is close to having just the system I'm looking for.

 

[CDonaldson]

SEAN - check your regular e-mail.



CD

 

[Lorenz]

What I have been tossing around is to remove my overload spring (if you could call that 1/2" bar of steel a spring) and adding a set of air bags that I could air up when I hook up the 5th wheel. My concern is getting a shock that works with and without the load. I understand Sage Carli (www.thecarlisuspension.com) is close to having just the system I'm looking for.

Something like this. We're still dialing them in, and we're oh so close... the Dual Purpose Leafs are adjustable by removing the bumpstops in the middle of the leafs. Add the bumpstops if you want the full spring rate and are towing something, and remove the bumpstops when your done for that softer unlaiden ride.

 

[Lorenz]

We've been playing with Air shocks as well. They'll carry as much as an air bag and then some. The weak link is the OEM shock mount...

 

[TowPro]

What I have been tossing around is to remove my overload spring (if you could call that 1/2" bar of steel a spring) and adding a set of air bags that I could air up when I hook up the 5th wheel. My concern is getting a shock that works with and without the load.

I left the overload springs on, and added those rubber 2 5/8" bumpers onto the purches. Fixed my problem. Don't let the 2 5/8" worry you, the bumpers crush about an inch when you put a load on them. Empty you never know they are there.

 

[DwayneKelch]

CDonaldson,



I'd need/use the same shock even with the air bags. The shock travel limits with or without the air bags would be the same. I just need air bags to help take-up the 1,000+ pounds of tongue weight I have when towing my travel trailer.



Lorenz,



I too would like a pair of the BE5-6647-H1s... see your e-mail. Thanks.



JohnCooper,



I appreciate the input and understand what you're saying. My goal was to have both, a better rear shock and a set of air bags (bags used only when towing TT). The OE shock is horrible and I need something that will prevent/lessen the tire hop (very little dampening left) when riding over rough roads. If I'm unable to get the shocks on before the air bags, my hope was that the air bags would provide some dampening.



JEvers,



According to Shock Warehouse's application chart, the number you listed for the front shock will work on your 06. It's made to be used with OE suspension height to no more than 2" lift (0-2"). However, they list a different number than what Geno's has (Geno's part number is for 94-02 rear shock, 0-1" lift . Shock Warehouse lists the same rear shock for 03-06. As mentioned, the shock is valved to match the spring rate of the 3rd generation trucks. Geno's shock will fit, but not the best for our application.



I appreciate everyone's input, it's like a bright light in a dense fog. Thanks.





Dwayne

 

[Lorenz]

The OE shock is horrible and I need something that will prevent/lessen the tire hop (very little dampening left) when riding over rough roads. If I'm unable to get the shocks on before the air bags, my hope was that the air bags would provide some dampening.

With the air bags holding less than 5psi you will not see any difference. If you inflate the bags your suspension system will be able to store more energy (and carry a higher weight w/o sagging) and it will increase the work your already inadequate shock needs to do.



I've ramped up the rebound dampening in my Sway-A-Ways close to their max. I've done this to Bajabob's KORE 7100's, and a couple of other Fox 2. 0 shocks that I custom valved for customers. The trick when carrying heavy is to ramp up the spring rate so your not sagging (Air bags, Dual Rate Leafs, or bigger bumpstops on your overloads), and then control the extra stored energy you get on rebound with Quality Shocks and valving profiles. There's a couple of other tricks to the valving but you get the idea.



The reason I don't use air bags is because it limits my travel to 6". Air Shocks like these won't limit your travel and will hold up better than air bags.



Here's a video of how the truck handles unlaiden with huge amounts of rebound dampening in the rear. The draw back is the rear axel doesn't track the terrain as well. Trade offs... :-laf http://lorenzindustries.com/video.shtml

 

[DwayneKelch]

Lorenz,



I appreciate the explanation about how the air bags just enhance the ability to store energy in the suspension. Between your's and JohnCooper's explanation, I now realize that air bags have NO dampening capability... the fog is lifting :-laf



I rarely take my truck off road (it might get a paint chip or dent), therefore shock travel really isn't a concern. If I do go off road, I travel slowly and avoid as much mud as possible. My brother-in-law thinks it's ridiculous , and knows we'll be using his truck when we hunt together



That said, would air bags or dual rate leafs work better for my intended use... I tow a Holiday Rambler 29FKS and loaded it weighs in at nearly 9,000 pounds. The tongue weight is nearly 1,000 pounds. I doubt I'll ever tow more weight than I do now. If so, I'd step up to a dually. I'm looking for a comfortable/stable ride unloaded and loaded... 90% on-road use, 10% (only when necessary) off road.



Thanks for your help.





Dwayne

 

[Lorenz]

If your happy with the ride unlaiden then the air bags will work. The Dual Purpose Leafs will soften the unlaiden ride and sit higher than the OEM when loaded, while providing the full travel of the shocks. Niether option in intended to be used over the GVWR of the truck.