Bio-Desiel?????!!!

[TFucili]

And George Bush was seen with a Dodge Ram in Virginia the other day running on Biodiesel. How can DCX say not run it.



Gary

He is his own warranty station :-laf

 

[Jefff929]

Emission Type for B100 B20 fuels. Regulated Total Unburned Hydrocarbons -67% -20% Carbon Monoxide -48% -12% Particulate Matter -47% -12% Nox +10% +2% Non-Regulated Sulfates -100% -20%* PAH (Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbons)** -80% -13% nPAH (nitrated PAH’s)** -90% -50%*** Ozone potential of speciated HC -50% -10%



So the NOx is up, look at the whole picture.

:--)

 

[TSpecht]

That may be correct for B100, but the abstract I posted referred to blends of biodiesel with regular diesel. You get a theoretical advance in timing with a blend, but get slightly more retarded timing with 100% biodiesel (which I believe is the other test item they mentioned in the abstract). I'm guessing the main reason for them not wanting you to run a different blend is lack of sufficient testing and inability to change the engine programming along with the blend you're running, in order to optimize efficiency. Especially if there can be a significant swing in timing from dead on where Dodge wants it with straight dinosaur based or 5% biodiesel blend, to advanced with higher blends, back to retarded with 100% biodiesel. At work I have access to the whole article and next time I'm there I'll try and get the rest of the article and see what their conclusions are.

I agree 100% biodiesel is probably overall better for the planet, but then again the Government doesn't really care how much you improve some things, if it's out of compliance on something, it's probably not taken into too much consideration based on how much is still in compliance or better than the minimum requirements.

 

[JoeBioDiesel]

I attended the National Biodiesel Conference, sponsored by the National Biodiesel Board a few months ago. One of the presentations made there explained some of the reasons for increased NOx emissions when using Biodiesel. Advanced ignition timing due to the increased bulk modulus of Biodiesel does not explain all the NOx increased observed with Bio. Another theory for it was that Biodiesel is not a hydrocarbon, but a methyl ester... and is oxygentated. Having oxygen more readily available for combustion would result in an earlier pressure peak during combustion. Recent testing with Anti-Oxidants (AO)s, showed a decrease in NOx emissions by a predictied amount, supporting the theory. More AO studies are currently being performed, mostly using BHA and BHT (yes, the same stuff you see listed on your cereal boxes). Many AOs were tried but BHA and BHT worked best.



Summary:

There are probably 2 reasons for increased NOx emissions when using Biodiesel. The fuel is thicker and is probably injected sooner (Diesel and Biodiesel are actually pretty elastic at peak injection pressures), and Bio has Oxygen in it's chemical makeup making it burn differently.



Joe

 

[jwgary]

JoeBioDiesel, are you saying that I can just add my favorite Lousiana hot sauce to biodiesel just like I do to everything that's fried in that veg oil?

 

[JoeBioDiesel]

jwgary,

Lousiana hot sauce makes my EGTs climb too high. I bet it would do the same thing to my truck..... so I's avoid it.



Joe

 

[Cummins Pilot]

Wish I could get it here in my town.



Also does anyone know what % mix can withstand -50f? This would be my limiting factor in the winter.

 

[JoeBioDiesel]

at -50F I'd be worried about running petro diesel, let alone Biodiesel. Bio raises the cloud point and gel point in relationship with the %blend. Adding any Bio at all to your fuel will raise both cloud and gel points. If you're seeing -50F, my advice would be to avoid it.

Joe

 

[Jefff929]

at -50F I'd be worried about running petro diesel, let alone Biodiesel. Bio raises the cloud point and gel point in relationship with the %blend. Adding any Bio at all to your fuel will raise both cloud and gel points. If you're seeing -50F, my advice would be to avoid it.

Joe

My night time temps rarely get below 20F. If I was in Fairbanks Alaska like Cummins Pilot in the winter anyway I would avoid Bio-D at all costs.

 

[KBennett]

I am also interested in biodiesel

From the recent Cummins newsletter:



What Is Biodiesel?

Biodiesel. It’s a term we’re hearing more and more frequently these days, but what does it mean? And, how might biodiesel fuel affect your engine?

Biodiesel is the name for an alternative fuel made from renewable sources such as natural oils like soybean oil. It can also be made from used cooking oil and from animal sources such as tallow. Biodiesel fuel is biodegradable, nontoxic, and essentially free of sulfur and aromatics so it is mostly clean burning.



Although not yet widely available, biodiesel can be found in many areas. It can often be purchased directly from biodiesel producers and marketers as well as many petroleum distributors. There are even biodiesel pumps at gas stations in some parts of the country. Altogether, approximately 23 million gallons of biodiesel were sold in 2003.



Although biodiesel fuel contains no petroleum, it can be blended with petroleum diesel fuel to create a biodiesel blend. The blend is usually referred to with a “B” followed by a number - for example, 100% biodiesel fuel would be referred to as B100. B5 (a blend of 5 percent by volume biodiesel with 95 percent by volume petroleum diesel) has been used in some fleet operations and by consumers. This is perhaps the most readily available blend today. However, other blends are also available such as B2, B10 and B20.



Biodiesel is made from renewable resources so it’s easier on the environment. Compared to petroleum diesel, biodiesel fuel has lower emissions of particulate matter, hydrocarbons (HC) and carbon monoxide (CO). However, biodiesel increases nitrous oxides (NOx) emissions. Most fuel-grade biodiesel is produced to an industry specification (ASTM D6751). It is important to note that this specification does not currently have an oxidation stability requirement which makes it difficult to guarantee the quality of the product over time. The performance characteristics of this fuel have been registered with the Environmental Protection Agency, so it is a legal motor fuel. However, there are other variations of biodiesel fuel available to consumers. This diversity in fuel types complicates the evaluation of biodiesel as an energy source. In general, however, biodiesel provides approximately 10 percent less energy per gallon of fuel when compared to distillate fuels.



Can I Use Biodiesel?

Technically, biodiesel will burn in any diesel engine with little or no modification to the engine or the fuel system. However, neither DaimlerChrysler or Cummins currently recommends the use of biodiesel blends above 5 percent (B5) for a number of reasons. First, biodiesel has a solvent effect. So biodiesel fuel may release deposits accumulated on tank walls and pipes from previous diesel fuel storage. This can clog filters, so precautions should be taken. Water is naturally more prevalent in biodiesel fuels than in distillate fuels, so care must be taken to remove water from fuel tanks. Current water separation filters are not as effective with biodiesel. Biodiesel fuels can also pose low-ambient-temperature problems for both storage and operation due to a higher fuel waxing temperature. Filters can plug, and fuel in the tank can solidify at low ambient temperatures if precautions are not taken. Biodiesel tends to have a negative effect on elastometers which means many gaskets, seals and hoses may be at risk. It can also have a corrosive effect on brass and bronze, which means certain valves and fittings may become compromised. Additionally, biodiesel fuel is an excellent medium for microbial growth. Microbes can cause fuel system corrosion and premature filter plugging.



So how concerned should you be about using a biodiesel fuel? First, keep in mind that there is a major difference between operating on pure (100 percent concentration) biodiesel fuel and biodiesel/petrodiesel fuel blends. In general, it seems that a B5 blend has no negative effects on the engine. A 100 percent blend, however, is a different matter. 100 percent biodiesel fuel is more likely to create the negative effects associated with biodiesel. Blends below 20 percent may minimize some of the potential negative effects, however, this is still under investigation.



DaimlerChrysler is continuously trying to promote the use of properly blended renewable fuels as a means of reducing the nation’s dependence on petroleum. According to DaimlerChrysler, diesel-fueled vehicles can be safely operated on up to 5 percent biodiesel blended in conventional diesel. DaimlerChrysler’s recommendations state that the biodiesel portion of the blend (5 percent) should meet the requirements of ASTM D6751, and the petroleum diesel portion of the blend (95 percent) should meet ASTM D975. Pure biodiesel is not recommended.



The bottom line is that more research needs to be done on biodiesel fuels. Cummins and DaimlerChrysler are actively researching the most common biodiesel fuels and their effect on engine performance, durability and reliability. In addition, Cummins is also currently part of a task force seeking to develop an ASTM stability standard and testing method for biodiesel fuel. It is certainly clear that biodiesel may offer an important fuel alternative for the future.



©2005 Cummins Inc. , Direct Marketing, Mail Code 60610, 500 Jackson Street, Columbus, IN 47201 U. S. A.

 

[Tractorat]

biodiesel

I keep hearing from my mechanic (not a dealer) (and from the local Dodge dealer here in Seattle) that it is not good for the cummins. They say it clogs up the engine, etc. On the other hand, my son in law is running b-100 in his 1978 Mercedes. Has anyone had problems with the biodiesel ?

 

[nps]

I keep hearing from my mechanic (not a dealer) (and from the local Dodge dealer here in Seattle) that it is not good for the cummins. They say it clogs up the engine, etc. On the other hand, my son in law is running b-100 in his 1978 Mercedes. Has anyone had problems with the biodiesel ?

The speculation is that the HPCR may not like Bio.



The 12V and 24Vs love the stuff.

 

[DBond]

I keep hearing from my mechanic (not a dealer) (and from the local Dodge dealer here in Seattle) that it is not good for the cummins. They say it clogs up the engine, etc. On the other hand, my son in law is running b-100 in his 1978 Mercedes. Has anyone had problems with the biodiesel ?

Do you have any details on what and where this "clog up" is occuring?



Have they actually seen this 1st hand?



And what level of bio are they concerned about, b100?



It is known that high levels of bio will clean out any built up crud in the fuel tank, and that can clog the fuel filter. This shouldn't be any issue on a new truck, could be managed on an older vehicle.

 

[Scrappy]

I have run B 2 in my truck and I can't tell a difference good or bad but I will use it every chance I get just to help reduce our dependance on oil. The closest place to get it from here is about 5 hrs away so it isn't worthwhile for me right now.

 

[tmh1955]

Here in Sonoma County Kalifornia, $3. 64 for B100 and $3. 29 for B20



Ouch

 

[Cattletrkr]

My last fill I paid $2. 18 for B5. At the time that was slightly higher than pump price. Now it's about $0. 10 under. I buy 500gal at a time. Lasts me just over a month. Can't tell any effects, positive or negative. Being a farmer, I like using soydiesel. We run B2 in all the tractors.

 

[tmh1955]

I got a wild hair a week ago and filled up with 100 biodiesel (pure). My CTD (2001 2500) runs just fine, smells like a deep fat frier and doesn't seem to smoke as much. But it is only the 1st tank. Time will tell. I think I will switch to B20 (20%) next and see how it goes. B100 is $3. 69/gal and B20 is $3. 29 here in Sonoma County Ca. So it is not something to be taken on lightly



Tim

 

[BimmerAgent]

I seem to remember from the owners manual that DC said b-5 was the maximum allowable mix on the '05 model. I did try some b-10 here in Colorado (altitude), when I filled my tank with it from 2/3 full. The truck became much louder, clattering noticeably during idle, and then at cruising (65 mph) when towing my 5th wheel & boat. My mileage also decreased about 10%. From this limited exposure to the bio, I'm not impressed, but maybe I need some more miles on the unit (2900). Bruce

 

[DBond]

I did try some b-10 here in Colorado (altitude), when I filled my tank with it from 2/3 full. The truck became much louder, clattering noticeably during idle, and then at cruising (65 mph) when towing my 5th wheel & boat. My mileage also decreased about 10%. From this limited exposure to the bio, I'm not impressed, but maybe I need some more miles on the unit (2900). Bruce

I wonder if you got some bad fuel? I don't have much experience (so far one tank of b5 in my 1000 miles) but I mostly read of same to a litle quieter (my experience), and mpg from same at low blends to -5% with b100.

 

[Diesel Nut]

Tharris - Just a thought, but with fuel prices here in Sacramento at 2. 37 for diesel, I would think you would save a lot of money if you went down and put 5 gallons of B-100 in a jerry can or somethin and took it to the trruck stop and mixed it in your tank there. You'd have B-20 ish for about 2. 50 a gallon I think. Thats a rough estimate, no math involved. If I knew your fuel prices I could be more exact. Just a thought.