Bio Diesel

[dwalker151]

OK, fuel seems to be the subject lately so lets fire a big on out there!





Has anyone got the chance to run any bio- diesel? We currently have been playing around with a twenty percent mix in our off road equipment but I haven't got the guts to start running it in the pickups or the trucks yet.



The big advantage that we have seen is the increased lubrication of the fuel. It's much better at lubricating pumps than our current stripped down diesel.



There are two major disadvantages that we have seen so far. The Bio fuel doesn't produce as much power and it really likes water. You can't be half a**ed about handling the stuff.



Is this the wave of the future????

Opinions



Dean

 

[jerryrigg]

Someone else posted this link... pictures are worth a thousand words but Bosch will not warranty pumps using bio-diesel



http://www.fueladditiveonline.com/bosch.pdf

 

[illflem]

"Is this the wave of the future????"

No, there isn't enough farm land to supply even a fraction of the the US's diesel needs unless we all stop eating and 20,000 acres per day of farmland stops changing over to houses. I've seen calculations where at the highest current per acre yield of oil crops on all US farmland combined could only supply the US consumption of diesel fuel for three hours then it's wait till the next year's crop. It doesn't mean we should be throwing used cooking oil away though...

 

[RKohn]

what's the point...

if it's not price competitive anyway.

 

[Midnite]

Originally posted by jerryrigg

Someone else posted this link... pictures are worth a thousand words but Bosch will not warranty pumps using bio-diesel



http://www.fueladditiveonline.com/bosch.pdf

Well, keep in mind that Bosch won't cover *any* injection pump failure you or I, as CTD owners, may encounter. This is because our warranty is from DaimlerChrysler! Cummins also warranties certain things engine-related.



So the fact that Bosch won't warranty their pumps if used with biodiesel means absolutely nothing to us. If I remember correctly, DC has taken no position on the use of biodiesel in Cummins powered Dodge trucks, and Cummins has done the same. If either company wanted to allow themselves "wiggle room" to deny warranty coverage of parts damaged by the use of biodiesel, they would have to take a much more negative position on it, but they haven't.



Also keep in mind that the pump damage attributed to biodiesel in the document above is strictly from gummed up parts. There is no mention whether the fuel used was B100 or B20 (100% or 20% biodiesel, respectively). We have no way of knowing whether the biodiesel was contaminated with water, or even how it was processed (was it a bad homemade batch, or was it commercially processed biodiesel? Or maybe did someone just dump in a couple gallons of old cooking oil with *no* processing?). That document is suspiciously vague on these points.



I would have no problems whatsoever using good quality biodiesel if they sold it up here, although I'd probably prefer B20 over B100.



Mike

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

We have B20 in our area - my trucks runs horrible on it. Mileage is about 2 mpg worse (14 mpg on B20), power is noticeably down, and it's expensive. It's sold as premium diesel in some pumps in my area - I personally won't ever use it again. At the TDR nationals the Bosch rep told us to run no more than 5% bio in the VP44 and that any level was fine in the P7100 (don't remember what he said about the new common rail).

 

[dwalker151]

I think that a lot of the same things could be said about ethanol when it first came out (ie: Too expensive, poor performance, no refinery's available to make the product)



I farm in Idaho and we have basically growing the raw product for 10% of our diesel consumption. I'm not saying that it is a perfect solution but if the government continues to mandate that diesel engines clean up their emissions then I think adding some bio product will help that problem.



The other problem that I think bio-diesel will address in the lack of lubrication in the newer lower sulfur fuels. The current rage seems to be a common rail system which has fewer moving parts and isn't as dependant on its fuel for lubrication. We currently run two common rail systems and they seem to be the least affected by running bio mixed. My concern is that if the new production engines can run with little or no lubrication from the fuel, then what additive will we have to use in order to maintain our older systems that rely on fuel for lubrication?

 

[jerryrigg]

From Cummins Website:



Given the current industry understanding of bio fuels and blending with quality diesel fuel, it would be expected that blending up to a 5% volume concentration should not cause serious problems. For customers intent on blending bio fuels above a 5% volume concentration, the following concerns represent what is currently known in the industry. Concentrations beyond 5% by volume could have an adverse effect on the engine's performance and the fuel system integrity/durability. The affects are more serious with increasing concentration levels.



Areas of concern when operating with biodiesel fuels include low temperature operability (fuel gelation, filter plugging), heat content (poor fuel economy), and storage and thermal stability (filter plugging, injector deposits). The oil change interval can be affected by the use of biodiesel fuels and some applications may require shortening intervals to half of the diesel equivalent. Lube oil dilution in applications with significant part load operation will fall under this guideline.



In addition, from Cummins' fuel systems suppliers, the following issues are also noted: swelling and hardening/cracking of some elastomer seals within the fuel system/engine, corrosion of fuel system and engine hardware - especially aluminum and zinc, solid particle blockage of fuel nozzles and passages, filter plugging, injector coking, higher injection pressures due to physical flow properties - reduced fuel system life, added stress and heat to injection components - especially rotary fuel pumps - increased pump seizures and early life failures, poor fuel spray atomization - reduced fuel economy. Pure biodiesel fuel is not stable and its acid content increases over time which can damage powder metal components



There is a whole lot more of this at:

http://www.cummins.com/na/pages/en/....cfm?uuid=000947AD-64AE-1B8D-BCF080C4A8F00000



Just FYI...

 

[Wayno]

Hey illflem its called economical development or urban sprawl , which ever you want to call it. We got it bad down here in Texas. I was reading in the Houston Chronicle a few weeks back and a article said that Texas had lost 1. 5 million acres of farm land between 1992 and 1997. The article said that other States had made laws to try to stop this but Texas had not. I'm glad to see that I am not the only one that beaches about this !!!!!!!!!

 

[illflem]

Wayno, to me the solution is simple, control immigration. Our population growth rate was nearing zero in the '80s until Reagan opened the floodgates with his immigration "reform". It could be our economy requires a rapidly swelling population in order to work, I'd rather be a bit poorer and not deal with the crowds. What I hate seeing is urbanization of farmland out in the center of it rather than have existing cities expand. Just greedy developers going for cheaper land. The county I live in had uncontrolled growth until recently, folks got tried of seeing subdivisions pop up in the corner of some farmer's hay field. Recent county growth plan put an end to it, a lot of developers who had bought farmland to build houses on are pi$$ed, guess they'll be farming now.

 

[Blakers]

I'm all for free enterprise and the government staying out of people's business, but I do believe all housing develpers should be shot. Nothing wrong with someone who owns some land selling it off for whatever he wants. But the housing developer comes into an area with full intent on destroying it. It ruins woodland, ruins farms, ruins the water table, ruins wetlands, ruins and constipates the roads, and ruins the schools. And the developer does his dirty work and leaves the whole area shot. I know this is off the topic, but I've watched the area that I grew up in and loved get totally destroyed by city people moving in because of the housing developer. It makes me sick!



Blake