Biodiesel Cold Weather Testing {Photos}!

[Cummnzpowr]

I did a recent experiment with a cup full of the biodiesel i run from an independant supplier who makes it for me. Here are my test results for any of you all that run in colder weather and run Biodiesel. *Note--both pics have Power Service additive in them {one cap full of grey bottle}. After putting the gelled substance in the microwave it took 15 seconds to turn FULLY back into liquid. Picture #2 is fully in liquid form down into the high 30's.



Picture#1:Biodiesel held between 12-30 degrees for a matter of hours with

Power Service additive in silver bottle,notice how it turned into a block of gel!



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Picture#2:Biodiesel held between 38-56 degrees for a few hours,also with power service additive in the silver bottle.



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[JFaughn]

I think you have some problums with your experiment , 1st the gray bottle is not an anti gell , its the white bottle .
2nd using the is afecting the bio I think vers. heating in air or water -double boiler .
Is your soruce a comercial proccesser & witch of the process's are they using ?
It seems when ever a alternitive anything comes around there is more misinformation than real .
A lot of non sicentific assumtions .
I'm just ranting becouse I'm all about alt. energy stuff and there is so much extra effert becouse of disinformation ,
I'm sorry if I'm getting on you , its realy the situation in general , I know a lot comes from the interested parties [ oil companies , ect. ] that usllay start it .
And it could be a just a mistake too .

 

[Cummnzpowr]

..

John...

I as well support alternative fuel sources 100%... this was just a homemade experiment that I thought might be interesting, in no way is it PROOF or final word on what temperatures this stuff gels at. I am going to do a test with the white bottle soon here as well. The guy i get it from is a home-brewer and gets his waste oil mainly from chinese retaurants and I have seen his process. . he is pretty thourough in washing it down and using methanol. I certainly hope that regular atmospheric conditions vary from my findings. Thanks for your input

 

[JFaughn]

After I got off line , I felt like I went a little over board , like said its fustrating , with 30 yrs. of alt. energy experance , its been an up hill battle and getting worse .
Don't let somebody coming off the wall stop your intrest .

 

[WBusa]

Sounds like you're using 'home-brew' rather than commercial bio-diesel? It is important to bear in mind that gelling and filter-plugging is (among other things) a function of how much glycerol is left in the fuel. Most home-brewers have no way of determining what their residual glycerol is; they just assume they got it out. And that doesn't necessarily mean that commercial bio-diesel is necessarily better... there have recently been some filter-plugging problems there, too, due to too much glycerol. Just sayin'.

 

[Cummnzpowr]

The cool part of this biodiesel in particular, can't speak for the other kinds... is that within seconds there's no gel left, it's totally liquid again. . so if one has a heater no problem.

 

[KBennett]

So how do I get the microwave under the truck to keep the fuel in the tank warm :-laf



Thanks for the info

 

[Duluth Diesel]

Try the experiment again using an additive that actually has anti-gel qualities.

 

[Cummnzpowr]

..

Duluth. . I will be doing this experiment after i get my next batch of Bio first part of January. . stay tuned Oo.

 

[Duluth Diesel]

That will be good to see. Most anti-gel additives are designed to prevent gelling and are not so good at reintegrating the fuel once it has gelled. I'd say do two experiments. 1 with fuel treated with anti-gel, one not treated. The treated one should not gel, and the untreated one will gel. Then throw some anti-gel on top of the gelled fuel and see if it can reintegrate the gelled bio fuel. That will be a useful and interesting experiment.



-Chuck

 

[RCash]

Dude!

Since when does CA EVER have temps like that anyway. Even if that is an issue there, find the solution! Properly processed B100 should have no gelling issues greater than petro diesel.



1. Is it properly processed?

2. Is it washed?

3. Was a very simple test made on the source oil (so that the proper amount of processing was done)?



In short order, prove it to yourself, do it yourself.



my humble . 02



Bob

 

[Cummnzpowr]

...

LOL that was the joke of the day right? It gets to single digits just about every night during the winter in the sierra nevada mountains. Here in the Sacramento valley has been touching the upper 20's at night for 2-3 weeks now. This Biodiesel is washed MANY times,the maker is very picky about his product especially when selling it to a number of people.

 

[JGK]

... Properly processed B100 should have no gelling issues greater than petro diesel...

Bob,



I'm confused by that statement. Either I'm misunderstanding it or your experience with biodiesel is different that most! From my experience and research it is generally accepted that B100 has a much higher cloud and gel point than petro diesel, even summer petro. Different feed stock produces different results, however, so maybe you're basing this on a specific oil, but it would be unique. I can put a 8 ounces of canola-oil based B100 which has passed several of the ASTM tests for biodiesel (water, catalyst, methanol, mono, di, tri, and total glycerides, acid, and suspended solids) in the freezer with 8 ounces of summer petro diesel and the former will be solid at say 15 degrees but the petrol diesel won't get to firm slush until its below 0. So can you clarify?





But on the subject of testing bio-D for gel points and use of additives, I, too have done this. I've been using a biodiesel anti-gelling additive for B20 produced by Amalgamated, Inc. in Indiana. I've been using it lately at 3 times the recommended dosage in a B65 blend with winter petro diesel. It helps, but not by a lot.



But from my tests what I've learned is that experiments with addtives and blend ratios will help you get a feel for what blends and additives work and don't work and how they compare to each other, but they don't give you a definitive answer as to what temperatures you're fuel will give you problems. Rather, only a rough guideline. Recently we've experienced temps in 12 to 14 degree range at night. I am currently running the mix referenced above - B65 with winter petro diesel and 3X dosage of anti-gel. My truck sits outside at night under a canopy with the block heater plugged in, which comes on with a timer at 3:00 am. Next to the truck is a jar with about 10 oz. of my fuel. At 6:00 am when I leave for work, the fuel in the jar is thick and very cloudy with clumps of wax. However, the truck starts fine and gets me to work across town without problems.



In November we had a cold spell where again the temps dropped to 12 to 14 degrees at night. At that time my fuel was B65 mixed with summer petro diesel and NO additive. My test jar was solid when I got ready to go to work. Yet the truck started and got me to work without issues. Surprised the begeebers out of me! The tank was kept nearly full, however, so I think the shear quantity of fuel helped to keep it from solidifying. But I would think the fuel lines would have been clogged. Yet it started and ran!



So, use your tests as guidlelines, but they won't necessarily indicate how or whether your truck will run at specific temps.



FWIW,

-Jay

 

[mhenon]

Try the experiment again using an additive that actually has anti-gel qualities.

I didn't think the anti-gels used for diesel fuel (Power Service etc) would work in biodiesel. Is there a particular additive that's used for bio?

Mike

 

[Duluth Diesel]

The new AMSOIL diesel fuel additives are engineered for use in ULSD and biodiesel.



Also, since I am a Power Service dealer as well, Power Service makes a straight anti-gel just for biodiesel use.

 

[mhenon]

DD, Thanks for the up-date. We have B10 here in Idaho but I try to flush it out before winter hits. Next year I'll buy some additive and keep running it.

Thanks again.

Mike

 

[Msilbernagel]

So... got any specs? Such as. . say, how much does it drop the gel point (etc) of B100, B20, B5? Any other good qualities, such as lubricity or cetane improvement, or ?



Inquiring minds wanna know!



Thanks,



Mark

-

The new AMSOIL diesel fuel additives are engineered for use in ULSD and biodiesel.



Also, since I am a Power Service dealer as well, Power Service makes a straight anti-gel just for biodiesel use.