Biodiesel Effect On 1st Gen Parts?

[poor]

I would like to know what is affect in the use of biodiesel in the 1st gen trucks? Thanks for any info!

 

[67guzzler]

The effects are that it should run quieter, cleaner, less soot and smell nicer. You may lose 3% to 5% power. Oh yea -- another effect is you will keep US farmers working and not OPEC.



You shouldn't have any trouble especially if you run D6751 certified biodiesel. If you get it from a reputable manufacturer / reseller, you should be ok. I have been searching and I cannot find any credible evidence that biodiesel will hurt these engines -- even 3rd gens.



You should be aware that due to the cleaning properties of bio you might have to change / monitor your fuel filter because the more miles you have on a vehicle run on petro diesel the more likely you are to release petro based sludge and particles due to the cleaning properties of bio.



I've seen posts by another TDR member who started using bio on his 150k truck. He said that he went through 2 filters within the first few thousand miles and by the time he was on his 3rd the system was pretty clean.

 

[truckstom]

I've been running bio for only 10 days now in both my trucks... roughly 50-50 mix bio and reg. diesel. I haven't noticed any ill effects as of yet. I haven't changed fuel filters yet either. They do run quieter... especially(sp?) the 91. You can certainly smell the difference Less smoke too.

 

[keendog]

fuel line types?

My understanding is that biodiesel can have a solvent effect on older fuel lines and seals typically made out of rubber. Anyone know what material was used on the 1st gens for fuel lines? I also think that this only becomes an issue after about 100k running the high percentages of bio. Apparently most manufaturers made vehicles with better quality fuel lines after 1996 using things like viton and pex to accomodate the low sulfur fuels.



I don't know about ya'll, but out here in Jackson, I have found some CRAPPY fuel since the price hikes after Katrina. Seriously considering a conversion kit from www.greasecar.com. There are a couple guys around here doing either Bio or SVO/WVO in a variety of engine makes, and they all seem to be doing just fine.



___keendog___

91 w250 auto k&n 4" exhaust 205k odo

 

[SHobbs]

Jay, that may have been my post you read about the fuel filter. It did take a few changes to get it clean, but that is expected with bio. Others may not have the same experience who knows. I have since changed to B100 soybean oil and the truck couldn't be happier.

 

[paccool]

I'm glad this came up when it did. I had a quarter tank of #2 left today and went to a different place to fill up. They had BioDiesel and I filled up with it. This is the first time I have used it. The truck ran fine but I have a huge amount of light colored smoke at idle. Smells like a fast food joint too! :-laf



Sitting at a stop light I had a lot of smoke drifting by the cab when waiting for the light to change. Has anyone else had this problem? With the POD's there is a haze when running #2 but not as much "smoke" as this?

 

[SHobbs]

So far I have seen nothing like that. My truck runs great on B100 and actually smokes less than before even when stomping it.

 

[Dirtscience]

Everything stated above, + I have ran B-100 home-brew bio in my 82 Rabbit truck for 1 year. I will list the problems I have had with that rig.

1. ) plugged fuel filters. (I use a raycor with a glass bowl on it. you can see the sludge start to build quickly when you start using bio if your rig is old.



2. )I jumped in both feet with this and started off with 100 percent bio and did not have a good washing process for the fuel. This left allot of soap and a little glycerine in the fuel which will also plug the fuel filter.



3. ) The little truck ran allot quieter but was down on power. It also ran hotter. I did not adjust the timing as recommended by some in the biodiesel circle.



4. ) Rubber fuel lines went to pot after about 8000 miles. They should be replaced with solvent resistent lines. They are 20 + years old anyway.



5. ) My fuel mileage dropped. this may be due to the lower power made. I believe the poor rabbit makes less than 50 hp and when you lose a couple percent you really notice it. My concern with this is my shop is full right now with a project Jeep and I cant get to my processor to start up again so the rabbit has been on #2 for 6 months. My mileage never did come back. It used to get close to 50 mpg and now gets 39 to 40 mpg. This just may be due to worn out old VW diesel 300K, but still starts and runs good.



Remember when reading my post - My fuel was home brew, with out very good quality control. When I started the project it was more of a science project than anything else. I only paid $650 for the truck so I figured I would not be out much if it blew up.



Regards



Mark

 

[67guzzler]

Thanks for sharing Mark. From what I've read, much of what you experienced seems to be the classic issues with running biodiesel on a vehicle that had a buildup of petrolium deposits in it's fuel system from running #2 before you got it. From what you say this was compounded with the fact that you ran a home brew with glycerol that got past your washing and cleaning process gunking up filters even more. I've got my fingers crossed that the hoses in my 2005 fuel system are resistent to biodiesel.



I've been running B95 for about a month now. It's beef tallow and it smells like hamburgers coming out of my exhaust. About a . 5 to . 75 mpg drop. Same or similar power. Very clean exhaust -- just about no smoke no matter what I do -- even flooring it up to redline.

Jay, that may have been my post you read about the fuel filter. It did take a few changes to get it clean, but that is expected with bio. Others may not have the same experience who knows. I have since changed to B100 soybean oil and the truck couldn't be happier.

Yes -- It was you that I was thinking of. I was reciting from memory. Hope I got all my facts straight... .

 

[BPINE]

I'm glad this came up when it did. I had a quarter tank of #2 left today and went to a different place to fill up. They had BioDiesel and I filled up with it. This is the first time I have used it. The truck ran fine but I have a huge amount of light colored smoke at idle. Smells like a fast food joint too! :-laf



Sitting at a stop light I had a lot of smoke drifting by the cab when waiting for the light to change. Has anyone else had this problem? With the POD's there is a haze when running #2 but not as much "smoke" as this?

My 370's haze white smoke running Bio mostly while cold in the morning, once it warms up there seems to be no problem. It does have a strong odor all the time and I think I will make an injector change soon. It runs fine and I have no other problems.

 

[Bob Wagner]

one of the NW Bombers must of gotten a bad batch from the dealer



http://www.nwbombers.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=17682&st=0

 

[67guzzler]

After reading the whole thread I have to agree Bob. What sucks is that proponents of bio are not only fighting against the fears of a resistent public but also sloppy biodiesel producers who are not following the ASTM D6751 standard.



Jim Robertson of BiofuelsAmerica (my B95 supplier) says that the biggest issue he hears about is bad supplies of biodiesel. It's almost never that the biodiesel is incompatible with any particular vehicle -- it's that the biodiesel is a bad batch. Second to that is buildup on older vehicles who have run #2 diesel for along time and then abruptly switching to a high dose of bio. Lastly is the failure of rubber parts and that's a distant last because most of the vehicles since the late 90's have parts that hold up to biodiesel.



These last two are surmountable because you can simply replace filters and fuel lines if necessary. But to overcome a bad batch of biodiesel is too much to ask. That sort of stuff really pisses me off.

 

[Dirtscience]

If you are purchasing it and get a bad batch I would be extremely ******. If you make it and run a bad batch..... You get the idea.



Mark.

 

[WyattEarp]

if not mistaken i have read either on a thread here or if you want do a search online for biodiesel read all you can beforehand, but i believe the early 1st gen 12 Valves the rubber hoses and o-rings may be attacked by the biodiesel, i can't remember if that was the B-20 or if the B-100(pure) was the problem, but changing your lines out with whats on the newer trucks i wouldn't imagine would not be hard to do, or find out for sure from a auto parts store.

Can't wait till they get it down this way, I saw the ad for the Azure company in Iowa i believe which was on the homepage here, that the Biodiesel only cost . 70cents to make, now tell me why its almost 3. 00 gallon, is it because its mixed with petro fuel or is this just another way for those that sell it to consumers to screw us over.

I would imagine that . 70cents to make and say 1. 50-1. 60 a gallon would be a great deal of profit, and help the farmers out also.

 

[67guzzler]

If you are purchasing it and get a bad batch I would be extremely ******. If you make it and run a bad batch..... You get the idea.



Mark.

Did the guy make it himself? I assumed he bought it.

 

[Bob Wagner]

Did the guy make it himself? I assumed he bought it.

The fuel was purchased from a filling station, not home brewed

 

[WyattEarp]

some do make their own, I myself also have a military multifuel 6x6 that im working on, of course the Multifuel was built to run on diesel mainly but in a pinch will run off gas, jet fuel, kero, but won't last long with extended use of these types of fuel. a guy in a neighboring county which i know has one also and he burns used veg. oil in his but he makes his own with lye and methanol but you have to remember the used veg oil isn't biodiesel as what we are discussing here and the lines on the multifuel are mostly copper and very little rubber but with the veg oil fuel there is no break down of the lines either, as so far he has not reported any problems and runs 90% and 10% diesel.

He doesn't wash it either which will leave residue from the lye and methanol, washing it gets rid of those factors.

 

[SHobbs]

JGan, yep you got it right. So far so good with the B100 no problems. I think for most they think just throwing bio in and all is fine. I did alot of reading on the subject to find out what I was getting into so I knew what to expect. I am still watching my filter and I check for water at least every other day due to some saying there is alot of water in bio, so far no more than #2. I think that if you are getting the bio from a good source all should be fine. As far as home brew well you are up to your own devices.

As long as things keep going the way they are bio will always be in the tank. Feels better to buy my bio from a guy that is using the same stuff and the same pumps. He has aways been one step ahead of any problems. I stopped one night to fill up and he was there with a tank on a flat bed loaded with B100 because the main tank was dry and he wanted make sure that his customers had fuel. Thats service and he even did the pumping.

 

[67guzzler]

The fuel was purchased from a filling station, not home brewed

That's what I thought from reading it then. That really sucks. I hate it when good natured folks and pioneers become guinea pigs for the greedy or the sloppy.

 

[paccool]

Gads, this stuff is the pitts! I reported earlier that I had a lot of white smoke after filling up with the bio at a station. This is the first time I have used it. Thought it might be the POD minjectors I had in so last night I switched back to the 185's. Still smokes bad. Sit at a light and the smoke looks like what comes out the stack at McDonalds when they are cooking stuff. People are rolling up their windows and I've been getting dirty looks today



I'll be glad when most of this is gone, will probably NOT try the bio again in this truck! My guess is I got a bad batch or something like that.



Also looks like the mileage is off 30% or so looking at the miles driven and what the gauge is showing.