Biodiesel-- would you run it if it proven was safe for the CTD?

[Hohn]

I was doing a little reading up on biodiesel and I am convinced that this sounds like a really good way to go. From what I can tell, here are the pros and cons:



CONS:

1) Contains methanol, so it will dissolve natural rubber (o-rings, seals, hoses, etc). Most newer diesels use synthetic rubber for all this stuff anyway.

2) Will dissolve concrete.

3) Can't "soot" someone-- you will have to settle for coating them with veggie oil

4) Might not smoke as nicely

5) Truck smells like french fry cooker



PROS:

1) Cheaper to run. Biodiesel is easy to make from soybeans, corn, you name it. Almost anything that can be made into veggie oil can be made into biodiesel.

2) Lower emissions

3) MUCH better lubricity than regular #2

4) Burns CLEANER, and tends to dissolve deposits, not leave them

5) Similar gelling/clouding qualities as regular #2

6) Similar BTU content-- about halfway between #1 and #2

7) COMPLETELY RENEWABLE-- we can make it start to finish here in the good old USA. no waiting a million years for crude to form. No paying a raghead money he will use to kills us for Allah.



That last one should actually be about 4 or 5 pros in one...



HOHN

 

[kevincook]

Is not Soy based more expensive now?



Is it available, I had thought some places were using it as a mix?



KC

 

[Hohn]

good question. I don't know about availability. That seems to be the biggest problem. Biodiesel is mostly used by large fleets that can get anything they want.



With the price of reg #2 getting as high as it is, I think bio won't be more expensive for long IF it presently is. Lots of places it's cheaper, I hear.



No firsthand experience with biodiesel myself. i am just an interested and curious party.



HOHN

 

[illflem]

When Rudolf Diesel invented his engine his intention was that it run on veggie oil, we're finally getting back to it.



In research done by Stanadyne a 1% biodiesel blend increases lubricity by 65%.



Recent proposal is to reduce the federal tax per gallon 1¢ for every one percent bio added to regular diesel to make the price competitive.



75% of US farms are already using bio-diesel in blends from 1 - 20%



Minnesota has enacted a law requiring all diesel sold in the state be at least a 2% bio blend.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

We have biodiesel (soy) available in our area and I hate it. When I've run it I've lost up to 2 mpg and paid extra for it (it's sold as premium diesel - about $. 20 more). Power is also noticeable down running it. I now look on the pumps any time I'm filling up at a new station and if it's soy I move on. One local station that was carrying it stopped because of all the complaints of low power and mileage.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

As world population explosion continues - it's a tough choice deciding whether to grow fuel for your vehicles, or food for your family...

 

[Hohn]

Originally posted by Gary - KJ6Q

As world population explosion continues - it's a tough choice deciding whether to grow fuel for your vehicles, or food for your family...

Gary, you should move to the USA-- here we don't have to worry about food shortages, just increasing fuel costs. .



HOHN



BTW-- sounds like a slight blend might be the best of both worlds, increasing lubricity without sacrificing mileage or power.

 

[TomGolden]

I have been using a little amount of new soybean oil as a lubricity enhancer, along with a good injector cleaner mixed in, for about the last 10K miles. I use 1 gallon of soybean oil in my 54 gallon TransferFlow OEM replacement tank, so I'm just under a 2% concentration. I buy the 4 1/2 gallon jugs from Costco. It is more expensive than #2, at $11+ for the 4 1/2 gallon jug, but like Amsoil, I consider it cheap insurance (to keep my VP44 happy).



I haven't calculated up the possible fuel economy differences from using the soy, but I had been told by several people that biodiesel has less cetane than #2, and other properties that result in a bit lower power and lower fuel economy. As for power, I made 439 horses in mid-January with my drag Comp on 5x5, and 345 horses with the Comp shut off at the NorCal dyno day This was with soybean oil in my fuel tank as described above.



Based on the cost of the soy, and the possibility of lower power and fuel economy, I don't think I'll increase my percentage of soy usage anytime soon.



Tom

 

[tractorman]

More Biodiesel info on the web

If you're sick of fuel costs you should check out this website. It has a lot of info on biodiesel as well as message boards to post your questions. The book is pretty informative too.



http://www.veggievan.org/

 

[illflem]

Originally posted by Gary - KJ6Q

As world population explosion continues - it's a tough choice deciding whether to grow fuel for your vehicles, or food for your family...

It's a common misconception. After the oil is extracted the leftover is still a high protein animal feed.

 

[The patriot]

If the cost of diesel keeps going the way it's been latley, I'll be fitting the back of my CTD's with a pump and 250 gallon tanks.

I'll be stopping in to the local diners, and other food establishments, my backyard may soon be a mini refinery. :-laf

I'm only half joking about this.

Eric

 

[Hohn]

Patriot, i am with you there.



Maybe we soon won't be far from the "Mr. Fusion" thing like on Back to the Future??



If nothing else, I big old bed mounted tank is starting to look like a good idea so you can fill up when prices are best. I know it won't offset the cost of the tank, but it helps a bit.



HOHN

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"It's a common misconception. After the oil is extracted the leftover is still a high protein animal feed. "



You're sorta missing my point - you're saying we can *currently* choose to plant soybeans, process the oil, and then use the byproducts for other beneficial uses - primarily animal feed...



OR, on the same ground, we can choose to plant sweet corn, strawberries, wheat or rice that DIRECTLY feeds the population - THAT is the sort of "choice" I was referring to. And as long as we have the luxury to do BOTH, no problem, and it sure beats continued dependence upon foreign fuels - but we might not always HAVE that luxury of choice, and thus, the potential future "choice" of fuel vs food...



And for those who are now saying "we have PLENTY of food, nothing to worry about", just remember, it hasn't been too long ago we were saying the SAME THING about crude oil!

 

[Steve M]

We have a couple of stations here within 50 miles that sell bio diesel. It's a nickel a gallon cheeper. The news man said people are driving a fair distance to fill up with it and like it. I'm still a little leary of new stuff. My owners manual says a good quality diesel fuel. But if Cummins approves in writing I'll give it a whirl.

 

[NVR FNSH]

Originally posted by Gary - KJ6Q

As world population explosion continues - it's a tough choice deciding whether to grow fuel for your vehicles, or food for your family...

Gary,

You forgot the third choice - birth control. Seems to be the obviouse choice to me... ...



Brian

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"You forgot the third choice - birth control. Seems to be the obviouse choice to me... ... "



Amen, brother, AMEN!



Control population growth, and MOST other problems now facing society disappear...

 

[roadranger]

The diesel burners are getting Royally Screwed by the oil companies...



If it were possible, I'd burn 100% soy just to back-screw the oil companies! :-{}

 

[dusthomps]

I thought about buying biodiesel once... currently it is ALWAYS $. 05 higher than regular #2. That doesn't encourage me to fill my tanks up with the stuff just yet.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Just for a good discussion, and assuming soybeans as the fuel source, how many acres of soybeans do ya think it would take to refine 100 gallons of bio-diesel?

 

[illflem]

A bushel of soybeans yields about 1. 5 gallons of biodiesel, average yields are 55-65 b/acre = about 90 g/acre. But this changing, plant breeders are now looking to up the oil content, before they were doing the opposite. The oil has been a unwanted byproduct in the production of soybean meal, the main use of soybeans.



The US is way behind in biodiesel production, 25 million gallons in '02 while Germany produced 750 million gallons.



One energy source US farmers are now utilizing is drilling their own natural gas wells, production isn't enough for commercial sales but is more than enough to run the farm.



The Furrow, John Deere's magazine, Feb issue was dedicated to farm grown energy sources and was a very good read. Wish it was online so I could share it.