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Biodiesel-- would you run it if it proven was safe for the CTD?
- Thread starter Hohn
- Start Date
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A spin-off of this I suppose - I'm an arch-conservative, and probably more Libertarian than Republican - I agree there are many tyrants and dictators in the world that need "education" or replacement - but I'm REAL perplexed at our current fixation on Iraq - and sure do wish our government would take the money we're so willing to spend for WAR, and use it instead for research and development of alternate fuel sources and technology!
I'd FAR rather see our citizens WORKING in alternative fuel research, than fighting and dying on foreign soil over OIL! If all the middle east had to offer us was SAND, I'm convinced we'd have FAR less interest in them...
I'd FAR rather see our citizens WORKING in alternative fuel research, than fighting and dying on foreign soil over OIL! If all the middle east had to offer us was SAND, I'm convinced we'd have FAR less interest in them...
FWIW
Along with the governments help, there is a company at this moment building a plant to make diesel fuel out of coal not far from where I live. They licensed the process from a South African company which traces back to Germany in WWII. It won't be online until around 2006. It is not going to be enough to make a dent but it is a start.
Along with the governments help, there is a company at this moment building a plant to make diesel fuel out of coal not far from where I live. They licensed the process from a South African company which traces back to Germany in WWII. It won't be online until around 2006. It is not going to be enough to make a dent but it is a start.
Bio-coal is on the way. Research has been underway and the first power plant to use it will be online next year. Thousands of acres have been planted. The plant is a native, Sawgrass that yields tons of fuel per acre twice a year on land unsuitable for farming with no input except planting it once (it's a perennial, lives forever and is very hardy) and cutting it. Gets over six feet tall. Btus per ton is just a little lower than coal with way lower emissions. Beats digging a pit and looks a hell of lot better.
Illflem, the idea of Bio-Coal is really exciting! I like to think that we are advancing in that area.
FWIW-- I used to live in Beulah, ND-- home of the only Coal Gasification plant in North America. They make synthetic natural gas (among other things) from coal. Rumor has it that they can replicate almost any petroleum-derived product by using coal.
There are only three plants like this in the world-- the other ones are in South Africa and Germany. Could this be what QTRHRS is referring to?
ND has a LOT of lignite (low-grade coal) that is perfect for these kinds of applications. I remember living up in ND, and you could heat your home all winter for cheap using ND coal, and it's pretty cold there in the winter. I remember one winter we heated our place for the whole season on $80 worth of coal.
Isn't technology great?
hohn
FWIW-- I used to live in Beulah, ND-- home of the only Coal Gasification plant in North America. They make synthetic natural gas (among other things) from coal. Rumor has it that they can replicate almost any petroleum-derived product by using coal.
There are only three plants like this in the world-- the other ones are in South Africa and Germany. Could this be what QTRHRS is referring to?
ND has a LOT of lignite (low-grade coal) that is perfect for these kinds of applications. I remember living up in ND, and you could heat your home all winter for cheap using ND coal, and it's pretty cold there in the winter. I remember one winter we heated our place for the whole season on $80 worth of coal.
Isn't technology great?
hohn
I should have saved the articles from our newspapers. I don't recall the exact capacity but this plant is now being built but won't be up until 2006. It is being built in PA to use the anthracite coal reserves. They have licensed the technology from the South African's whom I believe got it from Germany. The plant is being built next to an existing culm burner that produces electricity. The plant will be big enough to be important to the country and a boon for an economically depressed area.
sounds like the same process
QTRHRS:
If this is the kind of plant like the one in ND, then the local area is going to boom. Start buying up some real estate now-- take three mortages on your house if you need to. The plant they built in ND was a BILLION dollar affair, and it alone created a huge increase in the economy of the whole state of ND.
More info is available at www.dakotagas.com
BTW-- a balmy 11° there today!
HOHN
QTRHRS:
If this is the kind of plant like the one in ND, then the local area is going to boom. Start buying up some real estate now-- take three mortages on your house if you need to. The plant they built in ND was a BILLION dollar affair, and it alone created a huge increase in the economy of the whole state of ND.
More info is available at www.dakotagas.com
BTW-- a balmy 11° there today!
HOHN
"War Never Accomplished Anything-- Except Defeating Slavery, Fascism, Nazism, and Communism"
A non-sequiter, if I may - the Civil war wasn't really about slavery - it was about economics, the slavery issue was merely a by-product that was blown outta proportion by history revisionists. Communism wasn't defeated by war either, first, it still exists, second, where it HAS been "defeated", it was done more by out-spending opponents than by fighting, as in the case of Russia...
Fascism and Nazism I'll give you - but they're pretty much one and the same...
A non-sequiter, if I may - the Civil war wasn't really about slavery - it was about economics, the slavery issue was merely a by-product that was blown outta proportion by history revisionists. Communism wasn't defeated by war either, first, it still exists, second, where it HAS been "defeated", it was done more by out-spending opponents than by fighting, as in the case of Russia...
Fascism and Nazism I'll give you - but they're pretty much one and the same...
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not so...
Gary, you raise interesting points, but consider this:
If the Civil War was about economics, it was about the economics of slavery. If it was about states' rights, then it was about states' right to have slaves. If was about holding the union together, then it was about holding the union together when states wanted to secede to allow slavery. To say that the Civil War wasn't about slavery is to engage in TRUE revisionist history. By the way, this is a common tactic. You revise history, present your revision as gospel, then accuse anyone ELSE of revisionist history if they reject your revision. Slavery is truly the one common thread in all elements of the Civil War. If anything, the Civil War teaches us the the only way to have a LASTING peace is to have the war, get it over, and get on. The Founders avoided the slavery issue knowing full well it would have to be settle later, and WAR was they way it was settled. Peace is what is made AFTER a war.
Communism IS defeated. It doesn't mean it doesn't exist, just that it has proven to not be a viable system of government if you aim to endure and prosper a nation. It works against human nature and is therefore, doomed from the beginning. How did the Cold War PROVE that Communism is defeated? It's simple: the USSR had far more resources in natural and human resources. Yet, they were not able to turn those resources into money sufficient to out-spend the US. So, yes, we simply outspent the Russians, but the fact that were able to when they were blessed with FAR more natural resources, land, and people, means that their SYSTEM doesn't work. Thus, we defeated Communism by showing it isn't viable. IF Communism won't work in a nation is rich in resources as the USSR was, then it won't work anywhere (USSR covered THIRTEEN time zones!!). Show me A SINGLE prosperous Communist country. If N Korea had ANY prosperity, they wouldn't be trying to extort the free world with a nuke threat.
Fascism and Nazism are similar, and both are defeated, mostly because they end up taking the form of a Communist country. What you have are systems that work the same way for opposite reasons. Let me explain to those who are lost in this. Communism is considered the farthest "left" of the political spectrum. Fascism is considered the far “right”. Fascism represents the supremacy of the state while Communism represents the supremacy of the individual. BUT, since the only way to ensure “equality” of ALL the individuals is to have the gov’t control everything, Communism and Fascism end up looking and operating the same—A POLICE STATE. Read “Animal Farm” by George Orwell if you are rusty on how this all works.
The Cold War was won by fighting. Not on the battlefield, but in the research labs, the farm fields, and factories. Every productive American was a soldier in that way, and all deserve credit. A formidable economy is a very powerful weapon indeed.
HOHN
Gary, you raise interesting points, but consider this:
If the Civil War was about economics, it was about the economics of slavery. If it was about states' rights, then it was about states' right to have slaves. If was about holding the union together, then it was about holding the union together when states wanted to secede to allow slavery. To say that the Civil War wasn't about slavery is to engage in TRUE revisionist history. By the way, this is a common tactic. You revise history, present your revision as gospel, then accuse anyone ELSE of revisionist history if they reject your revision. Slavery is truly the one common thread in all elements of the Civil War. If anything, the Civil War teaches us the the only way to have a LASTING peace is to have the war, get it over, and get on. The Founders avoided the slavery issue knowing full well it would have to be settle later, and WAR was they way it was settled. Peace is what is made AFTER a war.
Communism IS defeated. It doesn't mean it doesn't exist, just that it has proven to not be a viable system of government if you aim to endure and prosper a nation. It works against human nature and is therefore, doomed from the beginning. How did the Cold War PROVE that Communism is defeated? It's simple: the USSR had far more resources in natural and human resources. Yet, they were not able to turn those resources into money sufficient to out-spend the US. So, yes, we simply outspent the Russians, but the fact that were able to when they were blessed with FAR more natural resources, land, and people, means that their SYSTEM doesn't work. Thus, we defeated Communism by showing it isn't viable. IF Communism won't work in a nation is rich in resources as the USSR was, then it won't work anywhere (USSR covered THIRTEEN time zones!!). Show me A SINGLE prosperous Communist country. If N Korea had ANY prosperity, they wouldn't be trying to extort the free world with a nuke threat.
Fascism and Nazism are similar, and both are defeated, mostly because they end up taking the form of a Communist country. What you have are systems that work the same way for opposite reasons. Let me explain to those who are lost in this. Communism is considered the farthest "left" of the political spectrum. Fascism is considered the far “right”. Fascism represents the supremacy of the state while Communism represents the supremacy of the individual. BUT, since the only way to ensure “equality” of ALL the individuals is to have the gov’t control everything, Communism and Fascism end up looking and operating the same—A POLICE STATE. Read “Animal Farm” by George Orwell if you are rusty on how this all works.
The Cold War was won by fighting. Not on the battlefield, but in the research labs, the farm fields, and factories. Every productive American was a soldier in that way, and all deserve credit. A formidable economy is a very powerful weapon indeed.
HOHN
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AMEN! AFTER THAT ONE
Comparing the Confederate Flag to slavery is an invalid comparison. Slavery was an institution. The Flag was a symbol. A symbol is designed to stand for something, and as such is open to interpretation. To SOME, the confederate flag means oppression, to OTHERS it means bravery and courage in spite of overwhelming odds. Since slavery is not a symbol, but rather in institution, it is much harder to argue based on opinion-- you have to have FACT.
No the civil war wasn't EXCLUSIVELY about slavery, but is was the grandchild of it. Ask yourself what one thing existed then, that, if it didn't exist, would have prevented the Civil War. The presence of slavery is the only thing that fomented war. Economic oppression, states' rights, etc. , none of that would be sufficient to cause an uprising.
In fact, the States have much FEWER rights than they did then, yet you don't see another Civil War, do you?
Simply put, no slavery, no Civil War.
No the civil war wasn't EXCLUSIVELY about slavery, but is was the grandchild of it. Ask yourself what one thing existed then, that, if it didn't exist, would have prevented the Civil War. The presence of slavery is the only thing that fomented war. Economic oppression, states' rights, etc. , none of that would be sufficient to cause an uprising.
In fact, the States have much FEWER rights than they did then, yet you don't see another Civil War, do you?
Simply put, no slavery, no Civil War.
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Back to Biodiesel
Thanks for the tangent fellas, but how about back to biodiesel?
I am curious... Since we have bioCoal and bioDiesel, what else can we get for Bio- substitutes?
How about bioSteel?
Maybe bioUranium? OK, that could be a little far fetched. .
Seriously, where else is there room for technology to allow renewable fossil fuel substitutes?? This is exciting to live in these times...
HOHN
Thanks for the tangent fellas, but how about back to biodiesel?
I am curious... Since we have bioCoal and bioDiesel, what else can we get for Bio- substitutes?
How about bioSteel?
Maybe bioUranium? OK, that could be a little far fetched. .
Seriously, where else is there room for technology to allow renewable fossil fuel substitutes?? This is exciting to live in these times...
HOHN
Bio-steel, you might have something there. Through genetic manipulation perhaps a tree could be developed whose wood is stronger than steel and lighter than aluminum. Treefallers would throw away their chainsaws and carry cutting torches into the woods, except that you wouldn't be able to call them the woods anymore.
Don't laugh, 10 years ago if someone said they had corn that genetically produced it's own insect control I'd say "yeah, right", now it's commonplace.
Don't laugh, 10 years ago if someone said they had corn that genetically produced it's own insect control I'd say "yeah, right", now it's commonplace.
BioDiesel
I have not used biodiesel myself but from what I have read it seams to burn cleaner and gives more power which has to be a win win solution and helps farmers too. In the January 2003 "Racecar Engineering" magizine it has an article on how VW is using biodiesel in their diesel powered racecars.
Todd
I have not used biodiesel myself but from what I have read it seams to burn cleaner and gives more power which has to be a win win solution and helps farmers too. In the January 2003 "Racecar Engineering" magizine it has an article on how VW is using biodiesel in their diesel powered racecars.
Todd
I'm not so sure about giving more power but a guy I know has set a new worlds record running bio in his jet dragster. Do a search under Mark Smith and the Wild Thang jet dragster from Puxico Mo. He ran quicker with his normal fuel but smelled better on the bio anyway. He ran in the 3s in the 1/8 mile. Oh and he pulls his trailer behind a Cummins that is powered by Bio Diesel most of the time.
Mark Smith and the Wild Thang
Mark Smith and the Wild Thang
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Re: BioDiesel
I am not so sure this is true.
Biodiesel has a lower BTU content than straight #2 (Bio has about 89% of the energy of #2) and this is why the Bio is less fuel efficient. On the upside Bio has a higher viscosity range than #2 which would increase the injection efficiency. Given the lower energy content and increase combustion efficiency, Bio has about 5-7% less energy per gallon than #2. (These numbers are taken from a Cummins press release on BioDiesel)
With the above information, it seems that the Bio would be a bit less powerful than #2.
Note: I'm not saying it is a bad idea, just trying to sort through the facts about Bio.
I am not so sure this is true.
Biodiesel has a lower BTU content than straight #2 (Bio has about 89% of the energy of #2) and this is why the Bio is less fuel efficient. On the upside Bio has a higher viscosity range than #2 which would increase the injection efficiency. Given the lower energy content and increase combustion efficiency, Bio has about 5-7% less energy per gallon than #2. (These numbers are taken from a Cummins press release on BioDiesel)
With the above information, it seems that the Bio would be a bit less powerful than #2.
Note: I'm not saying it is a bad idea, just trying to sort through the facts about Bio.
I thought I might as well link to the entire Cummins press release:
Cummins BioDiesel Field Announcement - August 30, 2001
I know it is a little dated. Maybe some things have changed since then?
Cummins BioDiesel Field Announcement - August 30, 2001
I know it is a little dated. Maybe some things have changed since then?
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