Biodiesel

[ndurbin]

I am doing a informative speech on Biodiesel in one of my college classes and I am having a hard time finding anything that lists drawbacks to using biodiesel. I have found several sites with plenty of information on the positive things.



If anyone would know of a site with drawbacks or opposes biodiesel I would appreciate it if you would share it. And if anyone has a good site I'd like them too.



TIA

Nathan



PS: Any good quotes about biodiesel would be welcome too.

 

[WBusa]

Hey, Nathan,



In all my reading up on biodiesel, I don't think I've ever seen anything really negative... there's just not much not to like about it. Still, there are two different ways of thinking about biodiesel: first, as a sort of 'hamburger helper' to mix with dino diesel (B5, B20, etc. ) to help stretch out our fossil fuel supplies a little; and second, as a complete replacement for dino diesel (i. e. , B100). Its hard to think of any objections at all to the the first approach (although it doesn't really solve our problems; just delays 'em). But the second approach does, unfortunately, have some issues:



1. B100 clouds and gels at too darn high a temperature for it to be a serious contender in most of the US. I have to believe chemists can solve this problem by developing new additives, but they haven't yet. Alternatively, you can always heat your fuel tank... but any solution that requires massive retrofitting of millions of vehicles is prolly a non-starter, practically speaking.



2. It would require huge tracts of arable land to meet our diesel needs with biodiesel. The limiting factor is the amount of sunlight that falls on the earth's surface. I did some back-of-the-envelope calculations a few months ago suggesting that to meet all our (the U. S. 's) fossil fuel requirements with biodiesel, you'd need farms totalling something like twice the area of Texas. That's a lotta land. In principle you could use floating algae farms at sea, but now you're talking jynormous infrastructure and operating costs (and, hence, very expensive fuel).



3. I don't have any figures here, but another huge impact would be on fresh water supplies... it would take an enormous amount of water to grow the nation's fuel supply. Adequate fresh water for basic needs is already a problem out west, and its only going to keep getting worse.



4. Here's another place I don't have any figures, just suspicions: pollution associated with growing our fuel supply would probably be a really big issue. Here we're talking primarily fertilizer and pesticide run-off. Then there's the issue of what we'd do with all that glycerin that is the byproduct of biodiesel production. Unfortunately, there's not much demand for it.



5. The final problem doesn't bother me much, but I can respect the fact that some people are troubled by it. In a world where malnutrition and occasional famine are way too common, is it morally acceptable to turn huge amounts of food into go-juice? Personally I don't see a problem here, since almost all of the world's malnutrition and starvation is due not to lack of food, but rather to lack of transportation to get that food to hungry people, lack of money for those hungry people to buy that food, and lack of civil authority to prevent disruption of food supplies. Today, we pay farmers to NOT grow food... I think that's a LOT more morally questionable.



Sorry I can't point you to any references on all of this... but hey, its your assignment, not mine!

 

[Dual EE]

The cost of biodiesel is higher.

 

[Cowboy Medic]

My uncle has farmed soybeans for years in Minnesota and bought heavily into the soy biodiesel production there. The number one negative is the cost of building the facilities to refine it and marketing it. With the cost of fuel going up though that is quickly becoming a non-issue. The blends as mentioned above are the most effective use that could be implemented in the short term. Especially from the standpoint of increased lubricity in light of the decreased sulfur content being required. Second con is as also stated with the higher gelling point when you go to B100. As stated though this should be failry easy to overcome, especially if more money is put into the development of it. Another helper on the horizon is that they are working to genetically engineer soybeans that produce even more oil per bean than what is currently being grown, thus increasing your yield without the need to have more arable land.



For me I would be willing to even pay more for Biodiesel as that money stays in this country providing jobs for farmers, and other americans versus going overseas. Theoretically building our own economy and thus increasing my overall quality of life. Doesn't mean it would pan out that way, but there is the reasonable expectation if it were pursued more heavily. To me it makes more sense to be putting money into developing this more than it does to drill in ANWR or try and use the reerves etc. Some states have begun giving tax breaks to plants that build biodiesel facilities. I haven't followed as much lately but I would really like to see the tax breaks for biodiesel blends as you do for ethanol blends in gasoline. I think all those kinds of things would be of huge benefit in the long run.

 

[SRadke]

I believe bio lacks the lubrication qualities of dino. This can be fixed with additives but I beleive that's why they usually mix the two. Don't quote me on that though, my memory isn't what it used to be.



-Scott

 

[Cowboy Medic]

Actually bio diesel has significantly better lubricity.



Another thing that is a con is that some types of gaskets are not compatible and can cause them to breakdown, so a person looking to run a stronger blend or a B100 would need to ensure they have gaskets that will not break down from the biodiesel.

 

[SRadke]

Actually bio diesel has significantly better lubricity.

See, I told you I had a poor memory. Disreguard that previous stament of mine



-Scott

 

[WBusa]

The cost of biodiesel is higher.

You're right, Dual EE... every time I check, B100 is more expensive than dino diesel. BUT... I've always suspected that this price difference is artificial and prolly temporary, rather than reflecting a higher cost to manufacture the stuff.



Why 'artificial'? Well, first off, if I'm sellin biodiesel I'm sure as heck going to sell it for as high a price as I can get... i. e. , I'm not going to sell it for cheaper than dino, even if it costs me less than dino to make it. But that only explains why its not cheaper than dino, not why its more expensive. To answer that, I think we have to consider three factors:



1. The technology is pretty new, so everybody who's making biodiesel has just recently shelled out big bucks for their shiny new facilities... gotta earn back that capital investment as fast as you can. In contrast, dino refiners are using facilities that were paid off years or decades ago, for the most part.



2. The suppliers know perfectly well that today, people who buy biodiesel are mostly true believers... either 'tree-huggers' like me, or 'Made In America' types like Cowboy Medic. We're willing to pay a premium because biodiesel gives us a warm fuzzy feeling. The wise capitalist prices his product at whatever the market will bear... so as long as the market for biodiesel is dominated by true believers, the vendors will charge a premium price because they can.



3. Today biodiesel supplies are limited, because there aren't a lot of facilities for making it. Those limited supplies rule out price wars as a good business strategy. Sure, maybe I could sell you biodiesel for 25 cents/gal less than the Shell station across the street can sell you dino diesel... but my inventory would run out quickly and I'd be out of business, whereas Shell can keep pumping. Not a real sharp business strategy, unfortunately.



But like I say, this is all temporary. Once the initial capital investments are paid off, once folks who don't give a flying fig about trees or the American economy learn about and are willing to burn biodiesel, and once inventory starts building up, then I really believe we'll see the price become quite competitive. I'm no economist, but I suspect biodiesel has some huge cost advantages: you have no exploration costs and no risk of dry holes, your 'reserves' will never run out, your raw materials aren't located in massively inconvenient locations such as the middle of the North Sea, you're not at the mercy of unstable or corrupt foreign governments, you don't have to ship the stuff half-way around the planet, you don't have to pay huge insurance premiums to protect you against Exxon Valdez-type oil spills, etc.

 

[ndurbin]

I found some information on the tax breaks at www.biodiesel.org



They used an example on that site that if reg. #2 were $1. 53 and B20 was $1. 72 the tax incentive COULD lower the B20 to down around the price of reg. #2. Ofcourse they go on to say the tax break may not be passed onto the consumer from the producer but instead used for other things by the producer (infastructure, line their own pockets, whatever). The incentive is basically for every 1% of biodiesel added to the mix is worth 1 penny.



They also claim 150 million gallons of production capacity that could double within the next 1-2 years.



Another claim they make is with excess soybeans and cooking oil there is about 233 million gallons of Biodiesel available.



Nathan

 

[CajunDieselMan]

If the money stayed in the United States and if it helped farmers, I'd be willing to pay extra for diodiesel... ... AND!! If I knew it would not hurt my engine. I buy American unless I'm forced into buying from overseas, even if it costs more.

 

[Headshot zod]

With B100, NOX emissions increase around 7%-9%. This can be lowered with a catalytic converter and can really be decreased to around zero by injecting synthetic urea or ammonia just before the catalytic convertor (NOX Catalyst). Just make sure you have a stainless steel exhaust. Oo.

 

[JFaughn]

The gelling can be solved the same as dino, same additives -sorry not a neg. . High % of bio [ not sure becouse of the many university studies I've read , they have tested B2-B5-B10-B20 and B100 and they have only said that B100 would over the long term would ruin rubber hoses and seals ]there is you neg. and since everybody likes to mod. why not change everything to viton hoses and seals[which work with bio ] dang just lost your neg. and as I remember when rebuilding eng. s most of the quality gasget sets came with viton valve guide seals. Heres a posible neg. 2-3% loss of power with bio , but again non of these studies tune the eng. for bio. maybe that neg. is gone also. sorry again. the Nox issuse might be help by tunning also, I remember doing smog checks in Calf. and you could change all the gas's by tuning, maybe one of the few neg. s that may or may not go away. As for sites the Universities that I remember where ID & MS together, MN. , OH. , IL. I know there are more but old farters is keeping me from remebering.

 

[onstottc]

I make biodiesel when I can get waste veg Oil. (I'm a cheap *******. ) I ran 70 gallons last Summer with no probs. Also, its an awesome solvent it cuts grease well. -- No smell, non toxic, biodegradeable.



Drawbacks:



Less Energy per gallon. (not much less)

Hard on certain plastics and rubbers that diesel does not Affect.

Attracts Hippies

 

[WBusa]

Drawbacks:

Attracts Hippies

 

[MarkVL]

biodiesel negatives

The Cummins website has a biodiesel position paper and I'm sure the other diesel mgfs. do too. It's been a while since I looked at it but I remember problems with gelling, gaskets and performance for modified engines.

 

[ndurbin]

Did find something of interest, biodiesel (when mixed and processed correctly) is 10x less toxic than table salt. It would take 3 liters + to kill you atleast 50% of the time if you swallowed some.



Nathan



Edit: When I get done I'll make it available to anyone that wants to read it, just PM me with your e-mail address. You'll need Microsoft Word.

 

[WBusa]

Did find something of interest, biodiesel (when mixed and processed correctly) is 10x less toxic than table salt. It would take 3 liters + to kill you atleast 50% of the time if you swallowed some.

Yup, lack of toxicity is one of its many benefits... unlike dino fuel, when it leaks into the water table its not really a big deal. However, your note did bring one unpleasant image to mind... I'm thinking' that if you drink 3 liters of biodiesel yer fixin' to give the 'porcelain pony' one heckuva ride! :-laf

 

[jcarey]

I'm thinking' that if you drink 3 liters of biodiesel yer fixin' to give the 'porcelain pony' one heckuva ride!



That's a new one on me! :-laf :-laf :-laf

 

[LightmanE300]

Did find something of interest, biodiesel (when mixed and processed correctly) is 10x less toxic than table salt. It would take 3 liters + to kill you atleast 50% of the time if you swallowed some.



Nathan



Edit: When I get done I'll make it available to anyone that wants to read it, just PM me with your e-mail address. You'll need Microsoft Word.

I've read that statement and I think it's nonsense. Put your hand in a liter of table salt and it feels like sand. put it in a liter of bio and your skin starts to burn after a while. I've also dumped a TINY amount of excess bio in my yard in a corner, and the grass has been dead for 8 months. The reality of the situation is that biodiesel is MUCH LESS toxic than dino diesel, but most of the claims are ridiculous.

 

[ndurbin]

The part I found that under was for meeting the LD50 toxicity rating in an online encyclopedia. And thats meeting the ASTM D 6751 and ISO 14214 requirements.



Wkipedia Online Encyclopedia



Guess it could be made up. Maybe thats why it's only two sentences outta of a 7 page encyclopedia listing.



Nathan