Black Diesel Fuel???

[Bunyan]

There is a guy I know who is running half (used) motor oil and half diesel to fuel his 06 cimmins, so he does not have to spend so much on diesel. He claims that filtering the used oil throught five one micron filters cleans the oil. I'm waiting to see how long this engine will last. Its been two months since he started. He said a friend of his turned him on to this black diesel recipe. I would like to here what you guys think.

 

[JR]

I know of a guy that does something similar to what you are talking about with his 12 valve although I cant remember how much he mixes in with his fuel. Its a few gallons of oil per fill up I wanna say 2 or 3 but not positive. He has a small tank that he collects used oil much like the old fuel tanks you might find on a farm that are built up on legs and there is no pump it just gravity feeds. He plumbed in a pump and a dual filter setup pumps his oil into a can and then dumps it into his truck right before he fills up. But with a common rail I would think thats a whole other ball game with the tight tolerances of the injectors. That could get real expensive real quick if he starts wipin them out one at a time. Be interesting to see how long it lasts running 50/50 mix.

 

[HBarlow]

I hope those geniuses save enough money mixing old used motor oil loaded with acids and other undesirables to pay for the new injection pumps and injectors they'll need soon.

 

[TCDiesel]

X2. . and if they go north in the winter... . $$$$

 

[EMAC2]

There is a problem with used motor oil because it is not "ash-less" like a two-stroke oil. As such, the remaining concentrations of additives (boron, magnesium, calcium, etc. ) will form ash as the oil is burned and this will collect on the injector tips and the exhaust valves. Calcium is what makes stalactites and stalagmites... ... .

 

[JR]

Harvey, Im quickly beginning to see that nobody on here is as big of a "genius" as you are.

 

[cerberusiam]

Harvey, Im quickly beginning to see that nobody on here is as big of a "genius" as you are.

Is that emphasis in the right spot? Should it be "big" genius or big "genius"? :-laf





However, I have to agree with HB and EMAC2. The potential for damage from the additives and compounds in the oil pose a problem, both in the combustion chamber and the fuel system. Acids and compounds not conducive to lubrication will eventually wear on tight tolerance systems. Filtration can only remove solids, not dissolved compounds that oil will encapsulate.

 

[HBarlow]

Harvey, Im quickly beginning to see that nobody on here is as big of a "genius" as you are.

That's good. I'm glad to hear it. Perhaps you can learn something now that you've realized your own limitations.

 

[AH64ID]

On older ISB's up to 5% WMO was allowed to be added to the fuel, that is no longer the case with HPCR motors.

It's a recipie for disaster for all the reasons mentioned. Motor oil is designed NOT to burn, so at low load/temps it will be an inefficient and dirty burn. In addition I'd be curious about his 1um filters, as that's not a legitimate absolute rating. My oil goes thru a 2um absolute bypass and is still nasty black.

 

[AMink]

I would think if Cummins thought running waste oil was ok it would be mentioned in the manual. You'd have to save a lot of money on fuel to replace an engine. The tolerances on a HPCR are pretty picky on what goes through the fuel lines. I'd like a report back in a year to see if there are any problems.

 

[Mikey-KE7LBB]

I have been using a UMO blend of 10% since learning about the idea on http://www.thedieselpage.com/



I once had a 6. 5L GM diesel with a dying injector pump and tried using this based on info passed on by a member that mentioned a TSB from Cummins back in '93 about adding up to 10% of new or used engine oil in lieu of fuel additives to replace lost lubricity from the new LSD... This only applied to the "industrial engines" of course!! :-laf



My 6. 5 injection pump was dead on straight #2, but ran good on the blend for about 20K until I got around to replacing it.



I have used the blend in my '93 D-250 (that I personally put 162k on top of the 170k it already had on it before retiring it for parts) AND also my current 1st gen '92 W-350 (of which, I replaced the "original pump" with 160k on it with '93 one) Truck is still ticking along at 332K+ and counting without issue... The pump has been using "black diesel". Best I can figure is the pump has around 2k more miles on it than the current truck it's powering!! That said, I would NOT suggest using it in any HPCR engine!!



The "old school" mechanical engines/pumps could burn just about anything that was combustible and be fine. However, I wouldn't dare try it in my '09.

 

[Wingate]

I have been using a UMO blend of 10% since learning about the idea on http://www.thedieselpage.com/

I once had a 6. 5L GM diesel with a dying injector pump and tried using this based on info passed on by a member that mentioned a TSB from Cummins back in '93 about adding up to 10% of new or used engine oil in lieu of fuel additives to replace lost lubricity from the new LSD... This only applied to the "industrial engines" of course!! :-laf

My 6. 5 injection pump was dead on straight #2, but ran good on the blend for about 20K until I got around to replacing it.

I have used the blend in my '93 D-250 (that I personally put 162k on top of the 170k it already had on it before retiring it for parts) AND also my current 1st gen '92 W-350 (of which, I replaced the "original pump" with 160k on it with '93 one) Truck is still ticking along at 332K+ and counting without issue... The pump has been using "black diesel". Best I can figure is the pump has around 2k more miles on it than the current truck it's powering!! That said, I would NOT suggest using it in any HPCR engine!!

The "old school" mechanical engines/pumps could burn just about anything that was combustible and be fine. However, I wouldn't dare try it in my '09.

Exactly... what once worked when injection pressures were lower and tolerances were wider is not the same as our newer engines. Used to have a JD 6 cylinder that refused to start cold on diesel. Give it a shot of Safety Solvent out of a parts washer and it would fire right up and cackle like a nitromethane dragster... once running, you could put it back on #2 and it was fine... . but I wouldnt DARE do that to a CR engine... . Unless it was my 6. 7L Ford... Those who know me will get that!!!!

 

[JR]

That's good. I'm glad to hear it. Perhaps you can learn something now that you've realized your own limitations.

Thats the difference between us Harvey. I know my limitations and Ill be the first to admit it when I dont know something. You are so quick to jump to conclusions, you take the liberty to call a complete stranger a name. That says ALOT about your character or should I say lack of. While were on the subject of Larry (the genious) let me first tell you that he holds 2 engineering degrees. He likes to fiddle around with alt fuels for vehicles. Hes been running an old carbed suburban off of hydrogen for over 10 years now. A few years back he converted an 02 town and country to run off natural gas. He fills up at home off of his house line. These arent kits that he bought, he designed them from scratch on his own. And hes also been running the waste oil in his 12 valve since it was 3 years old and had no issues. So you see Harvey, he and others who have chimed in here arent idiots like you perceive everybody to be that has a different view than you. But then again, I suspect the horse you rode in on is much too tall to even see us common folk way down here.

 

[fox]

Over about a three year span, I ran filtered UMO in my 02 dodge. Maybe only 20 gallons thru it.
When it got to running like crap and MPG were down, I replaced the injectors with some fresh ones. I had never seen injector tips so covered with crap in my life. Then the VP was the same way. A fresh one woke it up again.
I will use straight diesel from now on, like HB has suggested.

It got too expensive to save that much!!!
Now maybe an older one with mechanical pumps + lower injection pressure MIGHT work longer BUT--------

 

[Bunyan]

I've talked with this man about everything. He always comes over when he needs something or wants advice. I'll help anyone with advice, labor, money, ect... What gets me is when you ask me a question, that you have not a clue for resolution, and waste my time and do it your way, which then results in failure and you're at my door step once again. He asked about black diesel and I did not say a word. He loves it. Tells me how I should use this great thing. Well one day the bell will ring and who will be standing there? Yes, he will. Why? Will you hook up your trailer and come pick up my truck? It quit running. Why would anyone run an abrassive, polluted, corrosive, in such an exspensive engine? I'll keep everyone informed as this plays out. Have a nice day!

 

[EMAC2]

..... I'll keep everyone informed as this plays out. Have a nice day!

I think I know what the outcome will be, but would like to hear the results anyway. Just for the sake of argument, if nothing else. Thanks!

 

[Mark31]

Yeah, Fox. That saving money can be expensive. Short version: Electric bill was too high for a guy. Bought wood heater and built a chimney or put in a thru-the-roof kit, bought a chain saw, bought a 4 wheel drive truck. Sawing accident broke his leg. Lost job. Saved money? Mark

 

[HBarlow]

Thats the difference between us Harvey. I know my limitations and Ill be the first to admit it when I dont know something. You are so quick to jump to conclusions, you take the liberty to call a complete stranger a name. That says ALOT about your character or should I say lack of. While were on the subject of Larry (the genious) let me first tell you that he holds 2 engineering degrees. He likes to fiddle around with alt fuels for vehicles. Hes been running an old carbed suburban off of hydrogen for over 10 years now. A few years back he converted an 02 town and country to run off natural gas. He fills up at home off of his house line. These arent kits that he bought, he designed them from scratch on his own. And hes also been running the waste oil in his 12 valve since it was 3 years old and had no issues. So you see Harvey, he and others who have chimed in here arent idiots like you perceive everybody to be that has a different view than you. But then again, I suspect the horse you rode in on is much too tall to even see us common folk way down here.

Sounds like your delicate feelings were hurt. If you have so much confidence in your expert with all those degrees why'd you ask?

The guys at Cummins, Inc. who designed and have built over a million of our engines have a few degrees also. I can assure you they don't recommend burning used motor oil in Cummins engines. They're pretty clear about their recomendations printed in our owner's manual.

Ask your engineer buddy to let us know how his engine is doing with that dirty motor oil after several hundred thousand miles.

 

[Wingate]

Just as a P. O. I..... YEARS ago... . Seems like it was either Racor Filtration Systems or Standadyne that had a system for filtering and burning used engine oil thru a diesel engine... Saw one on an old 3412A Industrial once... . Guess it worked, but nozzles were much cheaper than unit injectors used today, and popoof pressure on that old 3412A was maybe 600-800 psi... a CR engine doesnt even arm the injection system intil 3K or better...
There is a reason these systems are not promoted and sold anymore!!

 

[JR]

Sounds like your delicate feelings were hurt. If you have so much confidence in your expert with all those degrees why'd you ask?



The guys at Cummins, Inc. who designed and have built over a million of our engines have a few degrees also. I can assure you they don't recommend burning used motor oil in Cummins engines. They're pretty clear about their recomendations printed in our owner's manual.



Ask your engineer buddy to let us know how his engine is doing with that dirty motor oil after several hundred thousand miles.

What did I ever ask, especially from you? Its amusing, reading through this thread I see everyone with different opinions, and thats the nature of the beast. We all have different experiences that lead us to think differently and have different views from one another. But your the only one who thinks he has the right to get on here and bash somebody because its a different way of thinking. Its almost like your overcompensating for something else you dont have, Harvey. Oh, and to your last statement... hes got 346,000 on the clock minus whatever he put on it the first 3 years. Let me spell this out as clearly as I can and then Im done with this thread because Im sarting to feel like Im arguing with a brick wall - I am in no way promoting this I would never run it in my 24 valve. The op simply asked if we (not just you Harvey) had heard of anybody doing this before. I have therefore I answered. End of story.