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Block boring and sleeving

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I have an 06 cr that I might have to sleeve 3 cylinders on a rebuild, can the cylinders with the sleeves be bored to 20 over to match the good cylinders that dont need to be sleeved? Is anybody running 40 over pistons? Is anybody had to sleeve all 6 holes? The block is all std bore right now. The top rings on 1,5,6 are broken and scored the cylinder walls.
 
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Is there a reason to punch 2,3,4? Sleeves are designed to take things back to normal and usually are not designed to be bored.

Kevin
 
You can bore the sleeves, but first have a shop check how bad the scoring is. You might be able to simply bore all the holes. Also, there are a lot of used engines at some junkyards, like LKQ where I got an almost new 2013 wheel to use as a second spare.
 
Just for grins I priced the repair sleeves.....Part number is 3904166.

Item #18 in the illustration.

06 Block.jpg


$52.00 each. If the machine work isn't too pricey maybe doing all 6 is not a bad idea. And the Cummins factory has over 8,000 of them in stock so availability is not an issue.... :D

Cummins will not sell a new bare block like they used to, that was the way to go.

Mike.

06 Block.jpg
 
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The reason I thought I would need to bore 2.3,4 would be to get a tighter fitting cylinder to piston clearance. 3,4 have lips or eye brows as a machine shop called them at the top of the cylinders that you can feel with your fingers. Would going 40 over be ok?
 
I was told by a machine shop you would not want to go .040" over because of heat issues. That why I was wondering how may people have ran .040" over.
 
You can mix or match it does not matter. "Normal" well used Cummins blocks do not have a ridge at the top unless they are dusted. Sounds like you need to do all cylinders, either bore, sleeve, or both.
 
Agreed, there usually won't be a ridge, but where the top ring hits the bore at the point that the piston turns around at the top of the stroke, there may be a groove cut in the bore. Look for it before deciding that standard bore is OK on an engine rebuild with a higher mile engine.
 
" Cummins will not sell a new bare block like they used to, that was the way to go... "

Actually Mike they do as I was able to get one when I did my 03's engine. My block was so bad in # 6 hole and the rest were well worn. That's what happens when the PO runs the engine out of oil :( I do admit the p/n wasn't easy to find at first, although it is now listed in the block option for my ESN. I used Cummins p/n 4990714.

BTW it is .5mm ( .020" ) and 1 mm (.040" ) for oversize pistons.

David
 
" Cummins will not sell a new bare block like they used to, that was the way to go... "

Actually Mike they do as I was able to get one when I did my 03's engine. My block was so bad in # 6 hole and the rest were well worn. That's what happens when the PO runs the engine out of oil :( I do admit the p/n wasn't easy to find at first, although it is now listed in the block option for my ESN. I used Cummins p/n 4990714.



BTW it is .5mm ( .020" ) and 1 mm (.040" ) for oversize pistons.

David

David,

When you get a chance try it again. Cummins Northeast has tried the bare block for me several times over the last year or so.

Everytime we try the Cummins system drives it to a reman short block. In the past they were available, ordered one for my 24 valve.


In between people yelling at you because Fed Ex NDA is late again (for me, that has happened about every hour for the past several days, I know all the folk at the Fed Ex building by first name now:)) run the number again and let me know how it goes.

Mike.
 
Mike I just checked today and you are corect it is no longer available. I just checked my invoice when I bought mine ( it was back in Jan 2010 ) and I see I bought p/n 4089503 which IS still available, although it is more money that 4990714. Memphis has 4 in stock. Both block p/ns break down to include several pieces but the bare block in both "kits" are the same #. The new one I bought was slightly different ( as are a lot of change ups ) than my old one but it worked fine. David
 
If I went with a new block are they ready to go or do they still need machine work? Do they all ready have all the freeze plugs and oil galley plugs in place?
 
I believe the common rail engines, '04+ have the oil galley plugs in them. The freeze plugs have been in some I've seen, but not in others. There are various part numbers. It's hard to keep track of all the options, and when they change, but if you order one for your engine serial number, they should be ready to go after plugging in your engine accessories. There should be no machine work needed.

As for running .040 pistons, there are no problems. I've got one that's overbored at .020, with one sleeve in #6, and various other work, pushing 420hp as a daily tow rig.... On level 2 on the TST.... on level 3 it pushed 459hp, IIRC, and on level 4 the fuel lines are too small from the filter.... :mad:

I've got one in my shop right now I'm building for the wife that's sleeved on all 6, back to std bore, and between that and linehoning the mains due to excessive rust, I've got $1200 in the block in machine work, plus the $150 I gave for it, rods, pistons, and a head. That's probably still cheaper than a Cummins block. It was a toss up to sleeve it or try to find another block, but, as I had the pistons, I went ahead and sleeved 'em. Only problem is you can't run a big camshaft, as the crank has moved up in the block slightly, making clearance on the valvetrain an issue with a big camshaft.

Currently, Cummins and Mahle offer .020 and .040 plus bore pistons. That's it, other than custom jobs and race pistons. Cummins recommends the block be sleeved when going more than .040 over. From what you've said about the shop you've consulted with, I'd seek professional services elsewhere. Heat is an issue, but it's directly related to fueling. If you're running stock to mild fuel upgrades, there is no concern, whatsoever. Also, if you cracked that many rings, and there is a lip at the top of your bore, you need to evaluate your air filtration. It sounds like you've been running a K&N Filter, or something just as sorry. Good air filtration is key to longetivity. If you need more air for more fuel, you need to go to a bigger paper filter.... not one that's coarser and let's more air in through bigger holes, along with dust and grime. More surface area is key. Running stock, the factory filter is sufficient. With some added fueling, the factory setup will still work. My suggestions are the AFE Pro-guard dry, or perhaps the Air Raid systems.... before you spend too much, however, let me point you to an article that's sheds some interesting facts on air filtration..... http://www.genosgarage.com/GenosGarageTechArticles/TDR56_AirIntakeSystems-Part1.pdf (with no objections from the author, I hope!)

You'll need a professional machine shop to measure the bore with correct instrumentation to see if they'll clean up at .040 or less. They should also check for cracks in the block and head. You need to have your head gone through, as well. You'd be surprised at how the valves will be worn, if your bore is worn that badly. Expect to pay upwards of $600 to have the head reworked, with new guides, seals, and seats installed.

Regardless, rebuilding the engine is usually much less expensive than purchasing a new one, and certainly less then a Cummins Reman. If you can find a reputable shop, they should give you a 2yr unlimited mileage, or perhaps 36k mile warranty, for less than $10k... if you can do the work yourself, you may can assemble it for as little $1-1500.

I'd suggest staying away from Jasper engines. I've had terrible luck with them. Their quality control is horrible, albeit they've been good to deal with on warranty.....
 
I not sure how the other owners of the truck treated it. The truck had 147,000 miles on it when I bought it, now it has 150,000. I was using quit a lot of oil and I got a heavy oil vapor smell in the cab, along with a lot of blow bye. The factory air box is still in the truck. The heads in the machine shop already. I am just trying to figure out what to do on the bottom end.
 
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I not sure how the other owners of the truck treated it. The truck had 147,000 miles on it when I bought it, now it has 150,000. I was using quit a lot of oil and I got a heavy oil vapor smell in the cab, along with a lot of blow bye. The factory air box is still in the truck.

Have your Parts Department run the block number that David used (4089503) and price it out for you, I think if you are going to keep this thing a new block is the way to go.

If a customer walked in here today and requested this block it would sell for $2187.45.

Edit.....There is a price increase coming at the first of the year, if you have an interest you might want to order before that happens. Your parts manager should have the new price file ready to put in place the first day of the new year.

Mike.
 
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Ouch, Mike!! Makes me glad to machine mine! :eek:

I'll have to respectfully disagree, just for the cost.... but what works for me, may not work for another.... if you have the expertise to assemble an engine, the cost of the block alone is enough to discourage buying a new one.... If it checks out good, and has to be rebored, that's less than $600, + pistons, which is less than half a new block..... Granted, it'll need new cam, main, and conneting bearings, and all the wristpin bearings will have to be checked, but the savings are substantial.....

Now, if you don't have the ability to assembly yourself, then I'd suggest a reman engine.... There are local resources in my area that sell long blocks for @ $7000 with a 3yr warranty.....
 
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