Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Bosch 300's

[JO'Leary]

Anyone running the Bosch 300's on a 180 pump. drivability, temps???

I read somewhere that the 300's have the correct spray angle for our piston bowls and that the 370's dont. I am confused because everything i see hear says run the 370's.



Thanks Joe

 

[Swayse]

370

I had the 370s and didn't like them. Way too smokey and hot and not that much more power.



I sold all the hot rod parts off my truck and I'm saving my money to do it right. Might throw in some 215 injectors while I wait, don't wanna go much more than that with the stock turbo.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Joe, both the 370 and 300 injectors are not ideal for our trucks as far as spray pattern, they are both marine injectors with a lot wider more open bowl design. The 370 and 300s have the same spray pattern, at least according to Piers--> "I'd ask for the Bosch part # for the 300 injectors, only ones I've found had a 155 spray angle, same as the 370's. 145 is the normal spray angle. The automotive or truck 5. 9 was only ever made in a 230hp, the 250 and up versions were all marine applications. " Source https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99939&page=2&pp=15&highlight=spray



I am going to try a set of 300s but I don't plan to keep them unless I like them. I one of those types who doesn't like a lot of smoke. Vaughn

 

[ndurbin]

I've had my 370s in for about 2-3 weeks now and I love em. The truck isn't much worse on the smoke end then it was before (but that doesn't bother me anyway). I have a TON more power (seat of the pants feel) than what I had with the 215 injectors I had in there (which for a price they could be had just PM me). And the only time I am fighting EGTs is pulling a trailer up a decent hill in OD.



Nathan

 

[Swayse]

Thanks for the offer ndurbin, might take you up on that. I'm putting in some govener springs for a guy that has some BD injectors, think I'll take his stock injectors for putting the springs in his truck. He's got a 97 5 speed so he should have the 215 injectors. Not sure if he still has them, he might have thrown them away.

 

[bmoeller]

Joe-



If you can keep the EGTs in check, I wouldn't bother with the 215s or 300 injectors. You may only need to put a 16cm2 housing on the stock turbo. Can't say for sure, I put the HX-40 on right before the injectors.



I have my AFC spring tighter than it was stock, and smoke is pretty easy to control. Really not a whole lot worse than I could make when the truck was bone stock as long as I go easy on the go pedal. If I plant it after 4th lock-up, it will make a decent smoke show.



As a nice bonus, my mileage went up a bit with the injectors.

 

[JO'Leary]

Thanks for all of the advise. I have next to nothing into these injectors. They are brand new from Bosch. I will post the part #'s tomorrow.

My stock trans wont be to happy. :--)

 

[K5IP]

Ndurbin,

Any idea what my 95 5spd had for injectors size? I might want to upgrade also and might be interested in what you have.

Thanks

Rog

 

[RBratby]

k5ip you have 175 hp injectors in your truck.

 

[ndurbin]

I've started taking offers on them I guess since a few people have been interested. Shoot me a PM if your with an offer if your interested.



Thanks

Nathan

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Well I have driven around a bit with the 300 injectors but haven't gotten a chance to "get on it" yet.



One thing of concern is the amount of bluish smoke I get for awhile until it gets warmed up. Is this typical? It was in the low 80s this afternoon when I fired it for the first time today and any small throttle application makes a decent puff of blue smoke. Took quite a few miles to clear up. What's going to happen when it's in the 30s? My stock 215s made a bit of blue smoke in the AM but not nearly as much or for as long.



I am running a head that was decked . 010" and a . 010" over head gasket so compression is lower. Maybe that has something to do with it.



Vaughn

 

[JO'Leary]

Here is the Bosch part # 0 432 133 864

They are supposed to have the stock spray angle.



Joe

 

[Andy Redmond]

Vaughn: (Roger see below)



What thickness was the copper shim under the injector that seals it to the injector bore in the cylinder head?



160 hp nozzle orfice hole size = . 0090, 175 hp nozzle orifice size is . 0095? and the 215 is . 0105?

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

I used the thinnest ones based on what I was seeing in posts. I think they're . 010" or . 020"? They are quite thin.



Joe are you sure about that? Piers said in that other thread there is no such thing. . . all Bosch injectors 250hp and up are Marine versions, with spray pattern matching those pistons, not the automotive/Ram application

 

[Andy Redmond]

Maybe Joe's source though the 145 vs 155 deg. spray angle thought sufficent difference did not exist to confuse the subject? If you will look at a Cummins troubleshooting manual you will notice the difference in the bowls/piston tops that Piers refers too. The automotive and industrial piston differ with piston coating, ring location and bowl/top design. The automotive (oem rams) ones have a recess in the piston top with a "acorn" or knot in the machined in the center of the bowl. Other pistons have the centers come to a smooth peak, imagine a child's spinning top with the point facing up. In my opinion the second is more forgiving with injector nozzle spray angle.



The differences were primarily for emmisons IMHO.



Vaughn the . 020 shim/seal usually works well. A bit more timing might help your plight with the reduced "compression ratio" with the thicker head gasket. I don't think I'd venture too much above 17-18 deg. or your cold starts might become harder. "JGK-ND" ? had a . 020 over gasket on a 215 hp truck. I think he posted some optimal timing specs for his setup and sub-zero starts in ND if that's your concern.

Most of the 370's may offer some "lope" or idle /off idle concerns and some shake at cold startup? Seems to vary with what pump they are coupled with.



Just my . 02

Good luck

Andy

 

[JO'Leary]

Vaughn

No i am not sure, i would tend to believe Piers. They are advertised as being correct for our trucks, they do say that the 370's are not.

Good question about sealing washer thickness. The install kit that i have has . 055 wshers in it. Should i use them?



Joe

 

[Andy Redmond]

Joe:



The idea behind using the . 020 thin shims vs. the . 055 oem? shim is to lower the injector in the bore to improve burn and help to compensate for spray angle. .



"They are advertised as being correct for our trucks, they do say that the 370's are not. "



Devils advocate, Who is "they?" Nor do you have to reveal such. Or do they have a rash of 300 hp injectors they are trying to move out of inventory? I'm not judging your vendor, perhaps you feel comfortable with there performance knowledge. Although Piers is human, he is right most all the time. Also be aware that several types of 370s are out there. Piers has done R&D to assure the best 370 combo I'm quite confident. I think anyone familiar with Piers and Co can agree on that. . he would rather have a happy customer than make a quick sale.



Bottom line will the injectors perk up your truck? Likely so, but TDR favorites for bang for buck seem to be TDR vendors 370's oem 215's then D. Dynamics and Don M's EDMs and others I've likely missed.



Thats all, go forth and make smoke.



Andy

 

[JO'Leary]

Thanks for explaining why to use the thin shims. Where can i get them?

The whole injector story is a long one. Here is the short version. They were basicly given to me but came from e-bay. I know, i said the E word. I didnt want to use any names so i figured they was safe. What can i say, the price was right. FREE

Remember you get what you pay for.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Heh. . . mine were free too Joe Guess if they're free then were wasting a lot of time discussing their technicalities LOL



Back to the blue smoke thing, now I am thinking there might be an issue with my injection pump or I may be drawing some air somewhere. What happens is if I free rev with a hot engine and punch it I get a big blue puff followed by black. It doesn't smell like oil but poorly burned fuel. Other than my plate & AFC tweaking the pump is stock. Not sure if it needs "serviced" with this many miles.



When driving around town and rolling into the throttle easy it trails a fine blue haze all the time. When I punch it I get a quick puff of black but then very little smoke to redline at WOT. This is with stock plate in stock location and 25psi boost. EGTs max at about 1050.



Interestingly my engine comes alive around 2500 RPM then pulls strong peaking at 2900 RPM. Governor kicks in at 3000 - 3050. Guess I need to tweak the cam plate & AFC some more

 

[Cooker]

One thing of concern is the amount of bluish smoke I get for awhile until it gets warmed up. Is this typical? It was in the low 80s this afternoon when I fired it for the first time today and any small throttle application makes a decent puff of blue smoke. Took quite a few miles to clear up. What's going to happen when it's in the 30s? My stock 215s made a bit of blue smoke in the AM but not nearly as much or for as long.

This is entirely normal with 370's and I would suspect the 300's woud do this also, but perhaps not as severe. Even when warm the 370's have a haze at idle, I notice it most often when I am backing up my trailer.



These are the couple things I do not like about the 370's although they are a great bang for the buck injector. I wonder if DD3's would react the same in these situations as a 370? I'm guessing not.