bosch VE governor spring part numbers

[TFaucette]

looking for something in between a 3200 and 3800 governor spring but need a part number to give my local inection shop. 3200 still seems a lil slow but don't want to have to throw in new valve springs yet.

 

[Greenleaf]

..... hummm. I don't think there is. You can trim off a curl or two from that #366. You do understand the governor will fuel above that (3200rpm) speed, right. There are other adjustments to consider and the trim trick is one of them... ...



Upon looking further, there is a 460-416-082 spring at 3,600 rpm.

 

[TFaucette]

is the other trick the high idle stop? just makking sureyou can pull the lever farther back?

 

[Greenleaf]

Well, yeah. But there are several tricks/tips. The spring alone isn't going to net you more rpm. It will some, but it is intended to hold the fuel longer. You want more rpm, so all you really need to do is to adjust the governor speed. You don't really need a spring. Again, the spring holds fuel longer, as flatter fuel curve. Fuels longer from a lower spring to higher spring.



That helping you out any?????

 

[TFaucette]

what are some of the other tips/tricks and how do you adjust the governor speed, i was thinking of a 3600 and idle stop will that net me 3400rpm?

 

[cerberusiam]

Without fueling upgrades and pump work you won't get there under load. The internal settings on the governor need to be modified to maximize the dwell time on the fill port. Beyond 3000-3200 rpms you are starting to drain the injection head of fuel for lube.



In reality, beyond 2800 the flow rates drop dramtically thru the injection head. They will pull rpms until the heaqd seizes then its done. You can put whatever spring in there you want but it won't neccessarily rev to those limits.

 

[ENafziger]

In reality, beyond 2800 the flow rates drop dramtically thru the injection head. They will pull rpms until the heaqd seizes then its done.

So operation about 2800 rpm is running the VE low on fuel (lube)? Is there anything to help with this?

--Eric

 

[Greenleaf]

Dual feed fuel lines to the case (i. e. injection pump case) to supply more pressure inside the case to supply fuel quicker into the head. 120 case psi is a standard factory pressure.



What Alan was saying is 3,000 or so engine RPM is just right for max fuel delivery. At 4,000 rpm the pump's plunger is @ 1,200 strokes/min. / one injection event every . 005 seconds and it is not possible to fill the plunger through a . 060" hole in . 005 seconds.



Injection pump overspeed is above 3,400 engine RPM's

 

[JLEONARD]

For what its worth, I have pasted the "formula" for a VE pump that was sent to me by a Cummins marine engine guru. This is the set up for a marine version using a VE pump (which was never eom from Cummins oem used a Cav pump).

This is for a true 210 engine HP rated at 2800 rpm. This rating would keep egt in check at full rated power.

Settings for Bosch VE equipped B210 CPL 0742



VE pump must be fitted with new governor spring 1 464 650 386. 



Test equipment: Injector lines# 1 680 750 017 Injectors# 1 688 901 027



  500 rpm	124cc 1000 shots	Zero boost

  700 rpm	140cc 1000 shots	0. 55 bar boost

  850 rpm	144cc 1000 shots 	1. 0   bar boost

1400 rpm	120cc 1000 shots	1. 0   bar boost

1510 rpm	  62cc 1000 shots	

1600 rpm	 3cc 1000 shots	

. 

Remember the fuel pump turns at half engine speed therefore rated power is at 2800 rpm and BMEP is no worse than 2500 rated B210 @ 2600 rpm. 



Note to he pump shop, to be able to achieve the above figures it is required to rotate the AFC pin to the maximum cam profile and fit the smallest AFC collar. The governor end plug must be optimised to allow cut off at such high fuel delivery rates. With this information any competent Bosch fuel pump shop can rework pumps if required. 



Note any further adjustment of the external fuel screw will result in throttle governor instability.

 

[cerberusiam]

What Alan was saying is 3,000 or so engine RPM is just right for max fuel delivery. At 4,000 rpm the pump's plunger is @ 1,200 strokes/min. / one injection event every . 005 seconds and it is not possible to fill the plunger through a . 060" hole in . 005 seconds.

That is pretty much the problem. Once you get a set of injectors that will fow the fuel needed to make the power at the VE delivery pressures, the bottle neck ends up being the fill port. Beyond a certain point one would have to modify the fuel delivery circuit to the fill port to crank the pressure up to fill faster.



There is a limit to the case pressure that can be run because of the seals available and just the design of the pump. This is where you run into problems with the 24mm head as it can handle a lot more fuel but the supply side is not capable of matching it.



The flow simply falls off too much beyond 3000 rpms without some major work to make it reliable. Not that it won't run and fuel to 3600 rpms or so but if it only does it 3 or 4 times you have a problem. Good injection heads are expensive.

 

[Greenleaf]

. You can put whatever spring in there you want but it won't neccessarily rev to those limits.

Alan,



Changing from a lower RPM spring to a higher, would net a flatter fuel curve right? I mean, the Dyno graph would show that the fuel rate would hold longer before the governor defuels when a higher spring is compared to a lower rate one? I think I got that right.



The engine will not rev to that under a load, that is dependent upon the load and how much fuel the pump can provide for power/torque. The spring really doesns't have anything to do with that outside of holding the fuel rate be it longer or less... ... ... ... ... . eh?



So, unless I have been wrong all these years, to change the gov spring only changes the ability of the governor to hold fuel rate.



When the engine is placed on a dyno, the load is applied to force the governor to open to full fueling rate. The speed of the engine at that point has little to do with the spring (to a point yes, but there are many other factors) That spring only holds the fuel point. AT some point, the load overcomes the engines ability to maintain speed and the engine speed drops off as the load is simply too much to sustain rpm.



The same is true for any injection pump/engine. I can duplicate this test on a test bench and eliminate the dyno AND the engine. THat is how the gov spring is dialed in to provide the desired fuel rate under load. That, or you are doing this with the truck on a dyno and swapping out gov springs right then and there.



Anyone have a dyno sheet to post up so everyone can take a look at what I'm talking about? I don't think I have one loaded on my computer.

 

[JLEONARD]

Anyone have a dyno sheet to post up so everyone can take a look at what I'm talking about? I don't think I have one loaded on my computer.

Just e mailed you one. I don't know how to post here.

 

[cerberusiam]

Changing from a lower RPM spring to a higher, would net a flatter fuel curve right? I mean, the Dyno graph would show that the fuel rate would hold longer before the governor defuels when a higher spring is compared to a lower rate one?

That is correct, as long as the flow rate is supported at the higher rpms. That ends up being dependent on injectors, fueling mods, etc. A lot of times changing the spring doesn't flatten the curve, just extends the point at which it no longer will increase rpm. The fueling starts dropping off at roughly the same rpm but doesn't nose dive.



Go into the pump and max the collar on the governor so the fill port is totally exposed and around 2800-2900 fueling still starts dropping just as fast.



Add a 14mm head and the fueling starts dropping sooner and faster.

I don't know how to post here.

Use photbucket and link to the image.

 

[Greenleaf]

https://www.turbodieselregister.com...ram-forum-1989-1993/199486-any-guesses-2.html





It is already here... .....

 

[JLEONARD]

Thanks Scott.



For whatever reason photobucket is not letting me upload anything.

 

[Greenleaf]

How it works:

The spring increases the fuel rate and the flyweights decrease the fuel rate. The two balance each other at any given throttle input. The spring stretches out and pulls more and more on the governor tension lever as you increase the throttle application, all the while, the flyweights inpart force against the same.



When one of the forces overcome another, the governor is moving the control sleeve to adjust fuel delivery rate. When the two are in balance, the control sleeve is stationary and fuel delivery remains constant.



If a tighter spring is introduced from the start, it will increase fuel delivery as it overcomes the force acted onto the governor tension lever. (engine will rev higher) The same can be said for adjusting the governor speed screw. It will allow the spring to stretch further, thus tighter, thus increasing the speed at which the two forces will be in balance. The flyweights will have to turn (spin) faster to impart more force against the lever to overcome the spring force if a tighter spring is utalized OR the OEM spring is adjusted to stretch further.



I think that is clear... .....