Brake failure possible?

[TFlewitt]

In regards to my original post's questions about towing a toyhauler within the gvwr of both truck (3500 DRW - 12,200lbs gvwr-likely weight of 11. 5k including pin) and trailer (18,000lbs gvw -likely weight of 18k), but over the gcwr of 23k lbs: a couple of posters have said that a brake failure on the trailer would be catastrophic, and that it could be a likely thing to plan for... .



First of all, can anyone document first-hand/personal knowledge (please no "I had a buddy that said he heard . . . ") circumstances of the 7 pin connector failing or falling out? Can anyone document first-hand/personal knowledge of wiring burnout/fuse blowing, etc, with a fairly recent model of 5th wheel trailer causing total brake failure? Are brake failures towing 5th wheel RVs common?



Anybody have knowledge of how quickly an exhaust brake (used in lower gears/higher rpms) assisting the disc brakes on an '06 DRW 1 ton would stop a large toyhauler such as above?



In looking at MDTs recently, I noticed they all appear to have 16" drum brakes. The Dodge 3500s have massive (thick) 14" discs. Anyone have any actual knowledge of how much more effective a 16' drum/19. 5-22" tire is going to be compared with the 14" disc/17" tire? I might assume in a short distance panic stop, the 16" drum might work better, but on a grade, wouldn't the obvious fade resistance superiority of a 14" disc close the braking "gap"?



In talking to this MDT salesman (yeah I know, he was trying to sell a truck), he stated that none of the 5th wheel RV trailer were designed with enough braking capacity to stop themselves and that the tow vehicle had to do some, if not most, of the stopping. I thought that each vehicle (tow and towed) was supposed to have at minimum, sufficient stopping ability to stop itself. I thought that the addition of a vehicle behind another vehicle was not supposed to put an additional (or certainly undue) braking load on the front tow vehicle. Anyone know what is really true?

 

[SnoKing]

You repeated your question here, so I will repeat my reply.



Couple points. An exhaust brake does not stop a load. It allows you to go down a steep grade without using you service brakes, which gives you nice cool brakes if you have to stop for some reason.



Second the brakes on our 12K 5er are very small in comparison to the brakes on my 7K 2001. 5 truck.



I want a Volvo 660, but my wife says "no way"!



At the Alburquerque Balloon Fiesta, we got a tour of a Volvo. Guy paid 28K for it will less than 500K miles on it. Neat rig. SNOKING

 

[steved]

Some of the modern controllers tell you the connection is good... at least my Tekonsha does... so you see if the controller falls out or if the brake circuit malfunctions...



I for one HAVE lost trailer brakes before... I unknowingly picked up a piece of road debris (I guess a rock), which sheared the brake wires at the lead axle... I ended up with intermittent brakes at only one of the four wheels (I actually blamed the controller for a while until I realized that no matter how much "power" I dialed into the controller, it made no effect on stopping power)... it was no big deal because the trailer was only 6k, which is not hard to stop with the truck's service brakes.



So it can happen, but if you pay attention to your equipment, you know when it does...



steved

 

[Pavemen]

when i borrowed the gooseneck for my Moab trip, the guy said he used it the night before and his light check was fine before he left. I believe him as he uses his trailer several times per week for large loads, so its well maintained. He hauled a shipping container over 100 miles with it that night.

I hooked up the next morning and couldn't get stops or blinkers on one side. Come to find out the place that serviced the trailer two days before had replaced the main harness that was stolen previously and had not fully twist locked the trailer to harness connection and it was loose causing the loss of lighting as it worked loose on the previous nights run.

Same could have happened while driving and he or I could have lost the brakes. So it is possible that you can loose brakes while driving.

 

[B.G. Smith]

I had the brakes fail during rush hour on I-25 in Denver about three weeks ago, fortunately I was able to find a strip of road wide enough to pull off. We were in stop and go traffic an I guess the brakes boiled the fluid and would not work. After I stopped I added some fluid and worked the brakes a few times and got "some" braking back. The trailer has elec. over hydraulic disc brakes and they WILL stop the trailer when working correctly. Our trailer weighs around 12,000 pounds and I have no desire to pull anything heavier. Also had a failure when the trailer was new, we werwe returning from a trip to New England area and were just West of Baton Rouge La. when the tread came off one of the General ameritracs that came on the trailer, broke the hydraulic line on the rt. front tire of trailer. I drove several miles on the shoulder till I got to Gross TEte and was able to put on the spare and buy a new brake line. I have also had problems with the 7 pin connector losing continuity after they have been used for a while/lights out and brake malfunction. I will say this, get disc brakes if you have the choice. If you wait until you find a system that is infallable you will wait a long time, just get the best available and have fun. bg

 

[bb218]

I have on more than one occasion had the 7pin connector come unplugged, When it happened after dark I noticed the trailer lites of. I started using black tape to keep the plug plugged in. Mike

 

[Ragain]

Don't skimp on a brake controller. You get what you pay for.

Your 18k toy box likely has 3 axles? You should have enough braking capacity to drag the tires if they are getting enough current and are adjusted properly.

Zip tie your 7-pin connector to the receptacle lid for added security.

Exhaust brakes are the only way to fly if you do mountain grades while towing, but don't expect them to stop you! A good rule of thumb... . they can hold back a load while descending in the same gear you would use to ascend the same hill. Basically, the exhaust brake will offer nearly the same braking horsepower as the engine produces while pulling.

Panic braking is where most people get in a pickle. Just be sure to ALWAYS keep a safe following distance, and be aware of any traffic situation that may catch you of guard. Plan WAY ahead at all times.

Happy Trailering!

 

[jelag]

WE use an 04 3500 dually to pull a 20 to 22K lb trailer... I've towed it many times with no trailer brakes down mountains and in town... The exhaust brake will not hold more than about 15K lbs of trailer weight... I know, we sell them... . and use them... I've never had an accident...

In each case of a problem it was something that damaged the wiring... once it was a 500 lb chunk of ice and snow hanging and later falling off the trailer...

In another case it was a bad connection to the battery on the trailer and the electric over / hyd pump wouldn't work...

In each case I knew the brakes on the trailer didn't work... and drove it to where I could repair it, OUT of the rain, snow, or off the freeway... in each case if I thought I was not safe I would have stopped and got the dang thing towed...

But in each case I was taking it very easy and staying in the area I knew was safe... the same trailer with a F350, disc brakes in the front and drums in the back we cracked a rotor and one drum in a panic stop without the trailer brakes pulling the same trailer..... but we needed to stop fast.....

BTW the 3500 now has 250K miles pulling and the trailer total mileage must now be close to 400K... . it did go 160K (04 3500) miles before the first brake job pulling this trailer... we feel the long brake life was from the use of the exhaust brake and common sense... .

Hope this helps...

 

[jimnance]

I had what turned out to be a poor connection on the wiring. Trailer brakes worked fine during pre-trip inspection and on the way to the freeway. Somewhere on the freeway the connection apparently worked loose. As luck would have it the off ramp was downhill. I discovered the failure as I applied the brakes coming off the freeway. With 15,000 lbs behind me the rig pushed me about five feet into the intersection. I was all over the brakes with the anti-lock going. Very scary.



The exhaust brake would help, but losing trailer brakes is not a good thing, even with an MDT. The MDT probably has a bit more braking available as well as being heavier so it would have an advantage if the trailer brakes failed.

 

[Ragain]

I had a 45' flatbed gooseneck w/ two air-ride 15k Dexter axles. Since new, the electric brakes were basically a waste of materials. I could barely feel them grab at all, even with the trailer empty! This trailer weighed 9,960# empty and I would load 20,000# of steel on a regular basis. It was not uncommon to gross 37,500# GCVW. On a 6% grade descent, the Jacobs Exhaust Brake would maintain my speed at 23 mph @ 2,400 rpm, & never have to touch the brake pedal.

Obviously I don't promote this practice, but what I'm getting at is you can be amazed at the work these little Dodge's can do. But you have to pay VERY close attention to road conditions, terrain, and traffic situations. So even though you may only tow 18 to 20k with good brakes, you still must be aware that things can wrong at the worst times. Don't wait until you hit the exit ramp to do a brake test. Don't wait for the traffic jam just ahead to do a brake test. Don't wait untill you've started descending the 7 mi/ 6% grade to do a brake test.