Guns, Bows, Shooting Sports, and Hunting Bullet Casting

[BIGNASTY]

That Sharps must be a frisky one. Does your wife know about this "relationship".

She knows what I like!! and has never really said to much about a new addition to the Gun Safe.

 

[GHarman]

Weiner Slider is still "Veiner schlider", no matter which brand ya prefers! Ha Ha Ha!
Even a dab of BAG Balm + the original recipe works as long as yer "gatling gun" is hand cranked!
Ha Ha!
Remember, this lube is for BLACK POWDER. Not for smokeless.
GregH

 

[The patriot]

There is a COAL mod for these guns.
I had all the info, then the old puter went TU.:{

 

[GHarman]

Hmmm? I believe I have seen something on that subject. It may be in one of my resource books, or on the internet?
GregH

 

[KBurgoyne]

There is a COAL mod for these guns.
I had all the info, then the old puter went TU.:{

They can be converted to 45-90. You can still shoot the 45-70 with the longer COL bullets out to 2.85 I believe. There a dude by the name of David Clay runnin around doing the conversions.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/4175326/all/DRC_45_90_Marlin_Pics
(From this forum) "Call David Clay, he did it for me. You can call him at 7836099 or 8210247, both with Ft. Worth TX area code that begins with 8. Prices are 500-700 depending on what is involved"

I wouldn't put that much into the Marlin. A model 86 action though already has enough stroke to cycle the longer rounds and just needs to have the throat cut. Plus the 86 action is much more sturdy anyway. Food for thought.
The strongest of the levers is the Browning BLR which has an AR style rotary bolt head and can handle full boat 65000psi magnum loads. It has a detachable magazine and could probably chamber anything that fit in that magazine.

 

[KBurgoyne]

If someone were to chicken out a bit and just buy alloy at first until they were more accustomed to the casting process, which alloy would be best for heavy gaschecked bullets smokeless powder such as 4198, and a velocity from 1200-1750 ish.

 

[GHarman]

What ever you can get your hands on. Wheel weights are always good to start with. But if ya can afford the premixed commercial alloys, by all means, go-for-it.
Heres another interesting article on Lead alloys! Really good resource, IMHO!
GregH

http://www.lasc.us/castbulletnotes.htm

PS,
BULLET LUBRICANT
LBT Blue. High pressure smokeless loads will cause you problems unless ya have a GOOD Lubricant!
http://www.lbtmoulds.com/lube.shtml

 

[The patriot]

I used to work a steam plant at a hospital. The boss used to volunteer us operators to melt the lead from nuclear medicine to make lead bricks to line the walls from radiation. He offered 1 for 1. Make one for them, one for yourself. I didnt cast back then (30+ yrs ago)
Too bad I didnt have the foresight to use that offer to my advantage....:/

KByrgyone, I refered the COAL mod for the 500gr+ bullets. I have absolutly no intentions to launch such an animal @ 65000 pressures.:{

 

[KBurgoyne]

I used to work a steam plant at a hospital. The boss used to volunteer us operators to melt the lead from nuclear medicine to make lead bricks to line the walls from radiation. He offered 1 for 1. Make one for them, one for yourself. I didnt cast back then (30+ yrs ago)
Too bad I didnt have the foresight to use that offer to my advantage....:/

KByrgyone, I refered the COAL mod for the 500gr+ bullets. I have absolutly no intentions to launch such an animal @ 65000 pressures.:{

I didn't think that you would, especially since the listed max is 40000 CUP, but having a stronger action is never a bad thing. Most manufacturers agree that the Marlin should be limited to 35000 psi (33000 CUP) because of the relatively small rear locking bolt. If I was to do it over again, I would go with the BLR even though it only comes in 450 marlin.

By COAL, do you mean cartridge over all length or something else. The conversion to lengthen the action on the Marlin costs about the same as the rifle did. IMO by the time you have that much into the Marlin, you could have bought a nicer gun anyway. Feel free to take these as the words of a madman because I am planning to have a revolver converted to .458 win which should produce more energy than the Marlin can with heavy bullets.

By the way I have never seen my name spelled like that, but that is how other folks tend to pronounce it.:-laf

 

[bighammer]

So this 1800 pound chunk of lead in my yard might have value to shooters, eh? That would be a LOT of bullets.

 

[GHarman]

Bighammer,
ABSOLUTELY! Spot metal price, IMHO, Unless ya have a big heart =) !
Getting it into my truck would be the hard part:--):-laf


There are advantages to the mechanical design of the 1895 Marlin Rifle chambered for the 450 Marlin round.
According to M.L McPhereson ( a gunsmith) the 1895 model chambered for the .450 Marlin cartridge has a larger threaded shank on the barrel and uses the 60* V thread. The 1895's chambered for .45/70 have the very 19th century square threads on their smaller barrel shank. A la Sharps, Springfield 1873, 1903 Springfield, et al! Something to think about when building a custom lever action rifle for a high pressure cartridge. One other thing that I do not like about this design is the huge flute cut into the bottom of the barrels to allow the magazine tube to nest closer to the barrel. While it is mostly covered by the fore end, it is still an issue that creates harmonics interference.
GregH

 

[KBurgoyne]

I took the Marlin all the way apart at one point and found a few aspects of the design aspects that I really didnt like; that big dovetail for the mag tube is a good example. The insert that they hacked out a chunk a barrel for isnt threaded very well either, and its only job is to hold two tiny screws that are a pain to line up. The bolt itself is on the small side, has sections machined out for no obvious reason, has a firing pin safety that is pointless because it has a trigger block, the bolt only rides on one side of the receiver so it isnt supported all that well, and this is before you get to the quality control problems that Remington caused.

The BLR does not have these problems. http://www.gunblast.com/Browning-BLR358.htm

I hope you enjoyed this rant.

 

[GHarman]

:-lafAhh, Of Course!:-laf!
We will never see the quality of firearm that made the original Winchesters and Marlins so sought after.
IMHO, The M-71 Winchester in .348 is about as fine workmanship as one can get. Take that receiver and build a 450 Alaskan, or some such cartridge and you have a lever action that locks up like a bank vault.

I would love to have a 1895 Big Loop converted to use the .500 S&W or .475 Linebaugh with an 18" barrel and full magazine tube.

Another lever action that is much overlooked is the M-99 Savage! Not a big bad axx, but the more recent large frames are strong enough to handle the .308 family of cartridges. They were chambered in .243 Winchester, .308 and .358 Winchester. I would love to see them bring back that rifle in .338 Federal and 6.5 Creedmoor!!!!! With a color case hardened receiver and real walnut stocks. Toward the end, Savage was stocking them in cheap light hard wood with impressed "checkering". If you have ever handled a 1930's model 99 heavy barrel in .300 Savage? You will know the difference in quality that I am talking about!
I inherited My Dad's .300 model 99 Savage light weight, sporting a rotary magazine that is friendly to Spitzer bullets, it really shoots well for a early 1930's vintage, iron sights only, rifle. This was before scope mount holes were drilled and tapped as standard from the factory. With a Tang sight and a modern "light pipe" from sight, it shoots minute of angle out to 300 yards, If I do my part!
I am just adding this as conversational piece. The .300 savage has a really short neck. It does not do well with many cast bullet designs. IMHO, one would need to do a specific design for this cartridge. Loading the bullet with the grease grooves into the powder space will guarantee that lube will be burnt off the bullet before it slips out of the case neck and into the throat of the barrel.

GregH

 

[KBurgoyne]

Like this thing. http://www.bighornarmory.com/catalog/big-horn-armory-products/model-89-carbine-500-sandw-2/
http://www.gunblast.com/BigHorn-SpikeDriver.htm

Mind your wallet.

Ive got an original model 94 Winchester in 32 win. from around the turn of the 20th century. It might be a federal free antique. Also have a much more recent model 94 probably one of the Japanese manufactured. The original is better in every regard especially the way it shoots.

 

[KBurgoyne]

Can someone explain these bullet stability calculations if ya please. I am actually thinking of using heavy just barely stabilized bullets for self defense loads. My theory is that a 45 colt, with a 400 grain WFN or a .475 with a 425 WFN at 500 fps would hit like a bus especially if the bullet destabilized immediately on impact or f they were not totally stabilized to begin with. Since most shootings happen between 2 and 10 feet, accuracy really isn't an issue. I figure a super redhawk Alaskan with some compact grips would make the perfect pocket rocket.

 

[GHarman]

Explain it?? Nawww! Load 'em and shoot 'em. Nothing like an experiment, hands on and real world experience!
Thats where buying a box of bullets really helps in the decision making. Don't forget a block of Ballistics Gel!
That sounds like FUN!

GregH

 

[The patriot]

Can someone explain these bullet stability calculations if ya please. I am actually thinking of using heavy just barely stabilized bullets for self defense loads. My theory is that a 45 colt, with a 400 grain WFN or a .475 with a 425 WFN at 500 fps would hit like a bus especially if the bullet destabilized immediately on impact or f they were not totally stabilized to begin with. Since most shootings happen between 2 and 10 feet, accuracy really isn't an issue. I figure a super redhawk Alaskan with some compact grips would make the perfect pocket rocket.

IIRC Berger has a twist rate calculator on their site.

 

[KBurgoyne]

I have seen Berger's and several others. They are all based around the same equations with slight alterations. The equations only work for well for certain bullet types and velocity ranges. The easiest one to work with RPM. If I can figure out an RPM range where the bullets are not totally stabilized it would just be a matter of matching velocity and twist to that number.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2008/06/calculating-bullet-rpm-spin-rates-and-stability/

 

[GHarman]

It is bullet length and mass. Not shape! Length is the main parameter. The longer it is, compared to the diameter, the faster ya need to spin it!
GregH

 

[KBurgoyne]

This is what I had in mind for the gun. http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger-480Alaskan.htm

Ruger switched to the 5-shot in 2007 after the .480 had extraction issues with the 6-shot cylinder. In 2013 they switched back to the 6. I want the 5. The amount of meat left in the cylinder is not very confidence inspiring in the 6.

And the pills; http://www.midwayusa.com/product/19...ide-flat-nose-gas-check?cm_vc=subv11988274598