burn water

[WJune]

Anyone have expierience with these 'hydrogen generaters' as shown on ebay?

Some seem to simple to work, yet one has long list of testimonials. If they all are a scam, seems someone would blow the whistle.

This $4. 00 fuel is Bull! Time to shout down the Enviro wacco's and build some refineries in this country.

 

[WJune]

Anyone have expierience with these 'hydrogen generaters' as shown on ebay?

Some seem to simple to work, yet one has long list of testimonials. If they all are a scam, seems someone would blow the whistle.

This $4. 00 fuel is Bull! Time to shout down the Enviro wacco's and build some refineries in this country.

 

[JGrefenstette]

amen, lets take care of all these EPA worthless people and let our economy thrive the way it should. i want to be able to fill my tank for less than $100 again. hell it shouldnt cost more that $50 bucks!! to fill the darn thing up

 

[cerberusiam]

Yeah, every time the price of fuel goes up the fuel savers make a resurgence. Ain't capitalism and the internet wonderful.



The theory is sound and the silly little things actually work, on a 2500 cc engine. I can just about guarantee that anybody with a testimonial is driving a Honda Civic or a VW TDI, or flat out lying.



The flow rates the little cannisters generate have almost no effect on an engine of any displacement. You would be much better off investing in a water/meth system than one these wonder gadgets for a Cummins sized application.



A couple of other things they don't tell you is they can be extremely detrimental to engine life and electrical systems, especially on computerized vehicles.



The only way to break water down into its components, short of 4500 degrees at 150 psi, is crack it with electricity. These things draw lots of AMPS to do their job. Just imagine a 30 or 40 amp constant load on an alternator. You think we have problems with light switches and trailer light loads now, imagine THAT on our electrical systems.



The other problem with hydrogen and oxygen these things generate is it burns HOT! Its just about like introducing propane into a diesel engine but with a lot more BTU's. On a mechanical engine the problems are reduced as the computer is not trying to compensate for the added heat with more fuel, but, there is still the issue of regulating so it does not create too MUCH heat.



There is no silver bullet for efficiency, no matter how hard the hawkers guarantee they can suspend the laws physics. Its a zero sum game all around. :-laf





Thats my . 02

 

[Hoefler]

Check this thread: https://www.turbodieselregister.com...4550-hydrogen-generator-kit-all-vehicles.html It can be made from components readily available from Lowes or Home Depot for less than $50. But their claims on fuel savings are misleading to say the least.

 

[KOG]

Jeezus. Why is it that people NEVER seem to learn that anything that seems to be magic is a scam?

It's a SCAM!!!!. Wake up and smell the B. S.

 

[ChrisWilliams]

Check out this one Home - Hydrorunner - Double your Gas Mileage While Keeping it Green!. This guy claims 100% increase in fuel economy, which may be possible, but I suspect 60% to 80% is more likely with typical driving and the occasional wild hair. I believe this guy wants a little over $7k for his system, which would take around 2. 5 years to payoff if you use 1,500 gallons per year at $4 per gallon assuming it doubles your fuel mileage. It makes more sense for commercial fleets that spend $12,000 to $16,000 per year per vehicle on fuel.



These first gen. trucks do pretty good on fuel as long as you keep the pedal off the floor. Could be worse, could be a HEMI. I suspect you can watch the fuel gauge move when you nail the throttle on one of those rigs.

 

[Tippin Spotted Cow]

Actually, whoever is selling these things, probably is using the stupid idea to pay for his own rising fuel costs. Ah, a paradox, I know.

 

[RDHamill]

I'm thinking of lower my fuel costs by switching one of my Rams to a Sprinter.

The couriers tell me that they have cut fuel by almost half from a Ford Cube van (7. 3L) Wonder if it's all true ???????

 

[Tippin Spotted Cow]

I've realized that most things you can do to improve fuel economy would actually never pay off, or at least take so long to come back to a net gain that they wouldnt be worth it.



If youre trying to go further on a tank, get a bigger tank.



If youre trying to go further on a gallon, buy Fred Flinstone's ride.

 

[DPellegrin]

The problem with hydrogen is that it takes more energy to make it than it yields in heating value as a fuel. So if you make 1000 BTUs of hydrogen it probably took 1200 BTUs to make it through dissociation. We can not violate the first law of thermodynamics here, although many on TDR certainly try!



Regards,

 

[RDHamill]

let's build a neucular reactor to do it for us. then we'l have lots of H

 

[LiftedLimo]

I wanted to chime in. My buddy Jason built a single cell "electrolysis" setup on his mid 90's subaru. Basically it produces 90% heat, and 10% hydrogen. He has this routed to the engine, and has a o2 sensor modifyer that bumps up the voltage so the engine allows the hydrogen and controls the correct combustion ratio. You control the current though the cell with lye. Currently, he only used 1/2 an amp of power. His mileage gains have been only 5 mpg or so, but he has been driving on this for a few months now. He said the system so far has paid for itself.

He is building a 7 cell system that will be 10% heat, and 90% hydrogen for the same Subaru. By his calculations, and other who have built the same 7 cell system, his mileage will be in the 60mpg range.

After he is done with that setup, he is building a A/C square wave electrolysis system to run his 70's 460 Ford only on water. The DC systems work alright, and like it best at 2 volts per cell. But the square wave A/C systems are the best way to go, with the lowest DC amperage draw for a vehicle.

I didnt believe him at first, and then he showed me. Keep in mind that Jason is, like me, ASE Master Certified. He graduated from UTI down in Phoenix. I worked with him for a couple of years, before I quit working on cars professionally. Jason has 10+ years as a Auto Tech since he graduated. So were not talking about some backwoods ebay scammer, just a smart guy trying out new ideas.

 

[DPellegrin]

LiftedLimo- I appreciate the encouraging report on the use of H in IC engines, but if I understand you correctly your friend is violating the laws of physics. If what you say is accurate then he should be filing a patent application and selling this technology to the highest bidder because this is nothing like Honda and GM are reporting in their efforts to use hydrogen as an IC fuel. What you describe as electrolysis is actually a process called dissociation of water. This process takes more energy to make hydrogen than is yielded in heating value as a fuel. So where does that energy come from that he is seemingly getting for free? If he has data that describes the energy balance of his system, that would be interesting to see.



Regards,

 

[Partyat33]

So what is the change in the setup to convert from 10 hydrogen and 90 heat to 90 hydrogen to 10 heat ?

 

[LiftedLimo]

I will go get pictures of his setup next week.



DPellegrin, I also agree with you. This was my initial thoughts when he showed me what he was doing. I do know that the system he is using was patented in the 1960. I know that he uses a bunch of water to make it work. I also know that he has been driving on it for over 2-3 months, and that it has payed for itself. I will take some photos, and read his literature next week when I see him.



Partyat33, What he told me was that for a DC conversion cells work best at around 2 volts. If you have 7 cells, then your right about 2 volts per cell. When you use 14 volts for one cell you get 90% heat energy, and only 10% hydrogen/oxygen engery. Then he said if you use the 2 volt setup, you will be producing 90% hydrogen/oxygen and 10% heat.



Granted I have forgot most of my chemistry, and thermodynamics. But my friends in who are physics majors at OSU said that they studied a design for a class requirement. more then that, I do not know right now.



Honestly, I am terribly uneducated anymore about the physics and sciences put into these systems as I have not put an ounce of thought into them since High School Science and then one week at Wyotech 5 years ago. I am going to educate myself on the AC Square-wave system that he is building for his 460 ford. I plan on copying his desgin for my AMC 304 in one of my Willys. Ill report back when I get some photos.

 

[KOG]

Jeeezus. But I repeat myself.

I haven't forgotten physics and chemistry. Let us know how it works out for you.