Burning used oil?

[steved]

OK, I searched on this for quite some time... and find it very funny that there is nothing conclusive... in fact, running used oil in a CTD was ridiculed not even 3 years ago, and now it is more or less accepted in the 1st/2nd gens!



My question is this:



Who has ran used MOTOR (waste/drain) oil through their 3rd gen? Pros/Cons? Problems?



Now don't get me wrong, I'm only going to run oil that I know where it came from (my cars and truck) and it will be filtered at least three times (oil filter on the car/truck, 10 micron filter on the "oil tank", and finally through the HF6604, 3 micron FASS filter)...



And I'm not going to run a high percentage, probably try to keep along the lines of the 5% Cummins recommends. (rounding to 40 gallons, 5% would be just under 2 gallons of oil per tank?)



As far as the filtering goes, I figure that anything in a "clean" fuel that would pass the 10 micron filter (in a normal OEM fuel filter setup, not running waste oil) would cause as much damage as anything in motor oil/fuel filtered at 10 micron... or am I missing something??



And again, I'm also filtering down to 3 micron on the FASS too... which will also do a fine job of keeping the oil stirred up too...



So, who has done this and what effects have you seen??



steved

 

[jelag]

Years ago when I did some summer work doing construction we had a guy on the project that used to service the trucks, cats, etc... when he'd change the oil, he'd put the waste oil into the tanks of the larger equipment.....



But those large engines had huge injectors..... with nozzles that you almost put a paper clip size piece of steel into the hole of the nozzles... .



Today. . with what these injection systems cost... . and what the engine costs for repair... . you'd never catch me doing that.....



Just my 2 cents worth... .

 

[jimnance]

I agree. The used oil from our engines is an evil brew of compounds ranging from nitric acid to various sulfur compounds.



Most guys that started this practice in big rigs years ago have stopped doing it.



If I were desperate I might try it on an old 1G with tired injectors, but no way with the expensive injectors in our 3G's. For that matter, it could be damaging to 1G pumps.



I don't think it's worth it. JMHO.

 

[steved]

OK, explain to me how it could cause damage? (not being a smart *****, just want to understand this... )



This is my thinking... normal fuel has particulates in it (I have proven that, I have drained over a teaspoon of sand from my FASS before)... your fuel filter is 10 micron... even those particulates that pass a 10 micron filter don't seem to bother the IP/injectors that much... and again, at 3 micron?



And soot... scientifically, it is unburnt/partially burnt hydrocarbons... or simply, unburnt/incompletely burnt fuel. While it might appear as a "solid" it is actually isn't. Have you ever wiped a soot covered surface before? It is still very oily and will still cause an oil sheen on a water surface. I think a lot of people mentally associate soot with ash.



I understand where you guys are coming from, but from a logical perspective, it would seem almost harmless...



steved

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

I ran a few gallons through my '03. It didn't seem to like it. I put a gallon in the tank for 2-3 consecutive tanks and it started smoking quite a bit at idle and light throttle. Not oil burning kind of smoke but stinky diesel smell. After a few hard runs it cleared up once I refilled with straight diesel.

 

[Bandit1]

I add a few gallons whenever i think about it, make sure it sits for a while to sep out and dont use the last few inches of the container. the diesel will dilute it out. i wouldnt do it with a 3rd gen but with my ol 12v, she runs great with the added lube.

 

[jwilliams3]

I have done it before with my truck.

Would I do it again... sure if I had a better way of filtering it.

 

[SKneeland]

when i do my own it goes straight from the engine into my sliptank (through a screen). i mix it approx. 15/20:1, no problems so far



doesnt answer your question about the 3rd gens though.

i dont think a 10micron filter is sufficient for those as it is.

 

[steved]

when i do my own it goes straight from the engine into my sliptank (through a screen). i mix it approx. 15/20:1, no problems so far



doesnt answer your question about the 3rd gens though.

i dont think a 10micron filter is sufficient for those as it is.

Agreed, that was one of my deciding factors on the FASS, available 3 micron filters. A lot of people seem to forget that these fancy new pump/filter kits offered now were not available even a year ago (ie. GPD kit, Racor, etc. )... I might have even went a different way than the FASS if there would have been more choices.



I read a lot on the "opinions" of the effectiveness of the 10 micron fuel filters and it seems Cummins would prefer a 5 micron filter... cat and some of the others have went even as far as 1 micron filters. Then Gary with his Frantz... where will it stop? :-laf



Well, shoot... I had just built a used oil filter setup too...



steved

 

[Buffalo]

Jimnance's argument regarding acids & sulphur compounds does make some sense.



I wonder if you used a "toilet paper filter" (like the Motorguard, Frantz, etc. ), if you couldn't filter down enough to make the used engine oil acceptable. Those filters filter to a sub-micronic level, as I understand. I wonder if that would get the acids & compounds out of the oil?



My thoughts were to have a container for the used oil, install the filter & run the cleaned oil to a "clean" container. You could do this a number of times, probably. The filters (TP) are cheap & could be replaced, often, without great expense.



I, also, read of someone adding diesel fuel to the used oil to thin it out so that it would flow through the filtering media, easier.



Joe F. (Buffalo)

 

[jelag]

I couldn't help but step back in again..... sorry.....



Lets say you put 3 gallons in with 30 gallons of fuel..... and for some reason it plugs your fuel filter... what ever you would have gained, you've now lost...



We also have no idea what effect the additives in engine oil will have on combustion in the ratio we're talking about... . in reality... I now go 8,000 miles or so between oil changes and don't use but a 1/2 pint of oil between changes... . at 10 mpg... . thats 800 gallons of fuel to 1/2 pint of oil..... I see no problems with this... or if the additives will hurt/damage injection parts... .





Jim

 

[Nate]

I have a little setup I built out of a 5 gallon bucket. I fill it up using a automotive paint filter to get any larger stuff out... normally there's nothing that it picks up, though once I did get a bug, musta landed in my pan when I drained the oil



I let it sit the oil sit in the bucket for a week or so before drawing oil out of it so the solids and water will go to the bottom. Now the drain is about 1" from the bottom, so that bottom 1" is considered "junk" oil to me. I ran a 3/8" hose to a gas filter for carbed rigs, was around $4.



I pour it in 2 liter soda bottles, mixed with 10oz of Power Service. I have room in my truck box for 4 bottles. Before I fill up, I empty out the bottle in the tank.



Few people have gave me werid looks at the pumps, but oh well... WTF is that?.



I figure it if passes though the paint filter, fuel filter, and another fuel filter, then it should be small enough to not mess up the pump or injectors. IMO of course.



Plus 2 liters in 30 gallons of fuel is ~2% blend.



My reasoning is first it's free fuel, and also it's free lube for the pump and injectors.

 

[sag2]

The filter on the engine is not the one to worry about. Those are cheap and easy to replace. It's the screen in the in-tank module that is going to plug up first, and it is not serviced by itself. Just had mine plugged yesterday from a bad tank of fuel. I was able to clean it out and get it running again, but from the looks of the metal particles in the filter and stuck to the magnets on the side of the pump the CP3 has gone away from the fuel starvation. And I only drove it one day starving for fuel (where I could feel it loosing power). Ordered new lift pump today and will see how long the CP3 lasts. By the way, the code it threw was P0148.

 

[steved]

Thanks for the replies...



As far as filtration, my "Gary" remark was about Gary using the frantz on his fuel supply... I have the amsoil setup on my oil, but not on my fuel... in his setup, used oil (diluted to 5% in diesel) probably would not have an overall effect.



In my setup, I'd be good to 3 microns on fuel (not submicronic like the frantz Gary uses)... and I would be adding filtered oil (to 10 micron) to the tank, so plugging the intank module or the fuel filter (rapidly) would not really be a concern... again, I'd be adding filtered waste oil, not the "unfiltered" nasty stuff directly from the bottom of the oil pan...



Nate: I built a setup almost identical to yours... it consists of a 5 gallon bucket (a Rotella bucket to boot!), pickup about 2 inches from the bottom, 3/8" lines, an older AC Delco TP-1 fuel filter that is like a water separator/filter (10 micron filter), and a quarter-turn valve... but I have not added any oil to it at this time... no sense dirtying up the system if I'm not going to run the oil...



As for the acids and sulfurs... the acids I would be concerned about, but sulphur is a "lubricant" of sorts. And again, 5% diluted in diesel? I wonder how acidic it would really be? I wonder what the acidity of clear diesel is?



Does anyone know if the 5% used oil in the CTD is approved by Cummins for these 3rd gen CRDs?



steved

 

[Nate]

That is the thing too. The old Cummins, you could probably run them off crude oil :-laf The common rails are real touchy on even plain diesel fuel I've heard?

 

[Buffalo]

This reminds me, don't some of the "Big Truck" Cummins engines have a system that, occasionally, diverts some of the used engine oil into the fueling system & replaces it with fresh engine oil? I wonder if they use any extraordinary filtration for this oil before it gets run through these engines.



Granted, these engines, most likely, have huge injectors (nozzle holes) as compared to our 3rd Gen. engines.



Joe F. (Buffalo)



PS: JELAG- Don't be "sorry" about jumping back into this conversation. You have much more experience, than most of us, when it comes to putting long, hard miles on a truck. I always enjoy reading your posts. They're usually quite informative. Thanks.

 

[steved]

This reminds me, don't some of the "Big Truck" Cummins engines have a system that, occasionally, diverts some of the used engine oil into the fueling system & replaces it with fresh engine oil? I wonder if they use any extraordinary filtration for this oil before it gets run through these engines.



Granted, these engines, most likely, have huge injectors (nozzle holes) as compared to our 3rd Gen. engines.



Joe F. (Buffalo)



PS: JELAG- Don't be "sorry" about jumping back into this conversation. You have much more experience, than most of us, when it comes to putting long, hard miles on a truck. I always enjoy reading your posts. They're usually quite informative. Thanks.

Yes, I believe from the other thread I read, the oil replenishment system was called the "Centinal"...



I'm not disagreeing with the fact that HD equipment and our 3rd gens are different... I wouldn't even be asking this if I still had my 99, it'd already be running it...



steved

 

[nickleinonen]

with nozzles that you almost put a paper clip size piece of steel into the hole of the nozzles... .

that'll be a very large engine. . on the engines i have at work, they are pretty large [~10,000cid] and the orifi on the nozzles are not that much bigger than on smaller diesel engines. . the only time the orifi get larger are once the nozzle is well past the worn out point, or if water is driven through the nozzle. .

 

[klenger]

This reminds me, don't some of the "Big Truck" Cummins engines have a system that, occasionally, diverts some of the used engine oil into the fueling system & replaces it with fresh engine oil? I wonder if they use any extraordinary filtration for this oil before it gets run through these engines.

Just taping into the oil system downstream from the standard oil filter would provide pretty clean oil.



When we talk about burning drain oil in our trucks, we're talking about oil from the bottom of the crankcase that has been dumped into a waste can of uncertain cleanliness and then dumped into the fuel tank.

 

[steved]

Just taping into the oil system downstream from the standard oil filter would provide pretty clean oil.



When we talk about burning drain oil in our trucks, we're talking about oil from the bottom of the crankcase that has been dumped into a waste can of uncertain cleanliness and then dumped into the fuel tank.

Agreed, but what if we know the condition of the waste can? And we know where the oil originated (from OUR car/truck, not the waste oil tank at the local oil change place that might have things like brake fluid/antifreeze/transmission fluid/solvents)??



If the oil in the bottom of the crankcase was really "that" dirty, wouldn't you get a surge of sludge at the beginning of a draining? I mean, most oil pans I have taken off the bottoms of even older engines only had a film on the insides... oil does a pretty good job of keeping things clean right??



Just throwing some thoughts out there...



steved