California Pickup Law

[HWestfall]

Does anybody know anything about a apparently new law apparently all trucks rated over 10,000 lbs. and any truck with a modified bed being con sidered a COMMERCIAL truck. Having to comply with all commercial truck laws including having to stop at weight stations. I received a E-Notice from the Oregon Good Sams about this. The State director attended a seminar last month in Lancaster, A CHP officer gave the seminar. The information I got was not too clear on how it effects out of State vehicles. We had just gotten back to Oregon from May Madness and no one mentioned anything. Can anyone get info and pass it on to to all of us. Harry Westfall





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[HBarlow]

As an RV transporter from January 2005 through October 2007 I delivered a lot of trailers into CA and pulled a lot of them out of CA. I was commercial with magnetic signs w/ company name and DOT numbers, commercial inspection sticker, log book, etc. but was working with a dually pickup.

The first time I entered CA southbound loaded at the OR/CA line on I-5 I pulled into the first scale I saw in CA, a few miles south of the Siskayoos, and promptly got the attention of a CHP/DOT officer who came out waving his arms and yelling at me to stay off their scales. I passed 100 CA scales after that, loaded or unloaded, and never stopped at another scale.

What I understood during that period was a truck with a pickup bed was not considered "commercial" by CHP/CA DOT even when hauling commercially while any truck with a flat bed or other form of work bed was considered commercial and expected to stop at scales.

However, I visited San Diego and Los Angeles a year ago with my C&C w/flatbed towing my personal fifth wheel and never stopped. I entered CA on I-10 at El Centro and left northbound on I-15 to Pahrump and drove right on by every scale.

Sometimes states have their own interpretation and practices which differ from the written code and it is often full of "ifs, ands, and buts" and difficult to interpret.

Here's the way I see it unless there is. in fact, a new law: Pickups, even duallys, with pickup beds probably should not stop at scales. Flat beds, utility beds, other working beds probably should stop at scales unless waived off. RVers pulling privately owned RV trailers, whether their truck is a pickup or tow/flatbed, should never stop at a scale. RVers are generally exempt.

 

[Simplysmn]

I know a friend of mine that work;s for the local water company and his work truck is a 1 ton DRW chevy with a utility bed and he was pulled over and given a ticket for not haveing DOT number's on his truck mind you His is the Only 1 ton truck in the whole company that has number's on it now . I have also heard they are cracking down on pick/up's used for company use and requiring dot number's on them now but I have not heard about making them hit the scales

 

[HBarlow]

Federal and state DOT regulations have long required that a truck w/GVWR greater than 10k pounds or pulling a trailer w/GVWR greater than 10k pounds (I've forgotten the exact details or language) engaged in commercial activity business use is required to display DOT numbers. All duallys fall under the requirement. Did you ever wonder why Class II trucks meaning Ram 2500s have GVWRs that never exceed 9,900 pounds?

Commercial activity does not mean for-hire transportation, it means any business activity or activity that produces income.

Technically the same truck is required to have commercial liability insurance of $750k or $1M single limit, maintain a driver log book if operating across state lines or outside a 150 mile radius, have commercial inspection sticker, reflective triangles, fire extinguisher, driver medical card, company name and DOT number displayed, and more. In many cases (over 26k GCWR) the driver is required to hold a Class A CDL but often does not. Any landscaper or concrete contractor pulling a gooseneck flatbed tandem dually trailer w/backhoe is required to hold a Class A CDL but probably doesn't.

Thousands of light trucks used by plumbers, HVAC techs, painters, gardeners, framing contractors, roofers, brick layers, and mobile repairmen of all flavors are ignoring or violating the DOT motor vehicle codes in all states. Some get caught on occasion and some states, like the notoriously greedy socialist state of CA, are stepping up enforcement.

 

[AMink]

It just baffles me how a pickup used for personal use only can be considered commercial. What if I have a 5500 flatbed just 'cause I want to? Or if I have a hauler-type bed on a 4500 because I tow my personal 5er? Commercial should only apply if you are, well, commercial. IMHO, of course. :-laf

 

[RVTRKN]

I think they are talking about trucks that weigh over 10K when purchased and is the reason when I bought my 07 C&C in CA, I had to weigh it for the DMV registration, because a C&C is considered an incomplete truck. I had to make sure it did not weigh over 10K with the bed installed. I made sure the tank was empty and anything removable was off when I weighed it at a certified scale, and the weight came in at 9,250 pounds. I guess I will be the first to find out about this per a CHP ticket, because its registered for up to 26K, and I go by scales all the time, without a DOT number or sticker.

 

[HBarlow]

Nope, you're mistaken. DOT enforcement can be and is based on your actual scale weight OR RATED WEIGHT meaning how much you are carrying or how much you can carry.

If your truck is used to earn income it is commercial. Playing games with registration tare weight doesn't mean a thing. Your C&C probably has a GVWR of 12,500#. That's the number that matters.

I stopped at the Cheyenne, WY port of entry (absolutely required) westbound with a long conventional Holiday Rambler early in 2005 when I was new to transporting. I went in and handed over my documentation as required. The state DOT inspector looked over my paperwork and my driver's license which, at the time, was only a regular driver's license (non-CDL) and grinned. He asked, "what are you towing?" I told him, it was a 30+ footer with a GVWR (rated weight) of about 9,500 lbs. He said, "lets go outside. " He went straight to the door frame VIN decal in my old '01 Ram dually and eyeballed the 10,500# GVWR and then walked straight to the trailer VIN tag and read it. He mentally added up the two figures, about 20,500 or 21,000 lbs. and said okay and started back to the building. Horizon Transport had trained us drivers that w/o a CDL class A we couldn't tow anything with a gross combined weight RATING of even one pound greater than 26,000 lbs. I asked him if that was what he was checking (of course it was) and he chuckled and said it was. I said, "you'll never catch me on that, I know better. " He smirked and said "many of your fellow transporters don't. " "I just put one out of service for that violation yesterday. "

Note that no scale weights were mentioned in this scenario.

 

[Mhannink]

from my understanding if it requires a class c license then you dont have to stop. we even have a truck thats a 1 ton dodge that with a trailer is a class a restricted and we have never stopped at the scales, even in other states. i think for a rule of thumb if it is bigger then class c and has air brakes then stop at the scales. if not then dont bother it has been my experience that if you are completly legal and you dont stop at a scale and get pulled over for it most cops will give you a warning cause they know its confusing.

 

[AMink]

cause they know its confusing

BINGO! These laws are so convoluted and different from state to state it's like towing (or hauling) a handgun. No average Joe could make heads nor tails of some of these laws. I'd like to say that all states should be the same, but they'd probably go with CA or some other state that has the worst, most oppressive rules. Sometimes, I think the whole book needs to be thrown out and started over.

 

[HBarlow]

from my understanding if it requires a class c license then you dont have to stop. we even have a truck thats a 1 ton dodge that with a trailer is a class a restricted and we have never stopped at the scales, even in other states. i think for a rule of thumb if it is bigger then class c and has air brakes then stop at the scales. if not then dont bother it has been my experience that if you are completly legal and you dont stop at a scale and get pulled over for it most cops will give you a warning cause they know its confusing.

Sorry, I don't know what "bigger than class C" means but the air brake is not a distinction used by DOT. Private owned RVs towed by their owners are generally exempt, work trailers greater than 10k lbs. are not.

What you can do occasionally passing a scale in CA will get you in serious trouble in some other states.

If you are pulling an enclosed cargo trailer or flatbed with cargo and engaged in commercial activity, whether you are hauling for hire or simply pulling your own backhoe to do a plumbing or landscaping job, and cross state lines it would be ill-advised to blow a scale.

 

[HBarlow]

None of the rules and regulations are secret but do include lots of exceptions and distinctions that make them a little hard to grasp initially.

Anyone can visit their local department of motor vehicles office under whatever name it is identified in your state and pick up a copy of some form of commercial motor vehicle handbook. I believe all states publish a form of the booklet. If not, it is available online from your state website.

 

[AClayton]

Is that the reason you see the Not For Hire sticker on some trucks pulling large trailers?



My Company truck has DOT #'s and has a GVW of 11K... . I was just issued the truck,after being in a van for years,and accidently drove right by the scales. ... . Pulled me over and made me turn around and get on the scales!I came in at 9,756lbs. I guess I had a concerned look on my face so he wrote a warning and advised me sternly to visit each scale from now on.





Alan

 

[HBarlow]

"Not For Hire" stickers are primarily required by some states and used by many who are private RV owners pulling their own trailer with a retired HDT or MDT, both of which could be considered commercial trucks.

There are federal DOT regulations, regulations of 50 different states, and then actual enforcement priorities and interpretations within each of the 50 states. Lots of variations.

The DOT officers of some states ignore some of the regulations in their own states or modify the regs with strange interpretations. It's often hard to know. If you travel the nation's highways for a year or two you begin to know what matters in each state and what does not but often can't find a written explanation.

A "Not For Hire" sign will not legally allow someone driving a truck and pulling a trailer used in anything that produces income, not necessarily transportation for hire, to skirt the requirements.

It is not common but I have heard of racers pulling trailers transporting race cars and parts being fined for ignoring DOT rules on the premise that if they compete for prize money, it is commercial. Sounds outrageous but let's be honest. Many racers, professional sports figures, and fishermen do earn their living from their racecars, fishing boats, etc.

The problem is, when you run a scale or ignore the rules and are noticed by a DOT officer who chases you down he can usually find plenty of items to ticket you for and then you have two choices. Mail in the fine or return to that jurisdiction to appear in court and argue your case, maybe unsuccessfully.

 

[GAmes]

I was just in CA a week ago, hauling trailers commercially, DOT numbers and all. The big signs that say NO PICKUPS are still up at all the scales. They have all the customers they need with real trucks. I doubt those of us driving pickups have anything to worry about, especially if not commercial.

 

[Mhannink]

Sorry, I don't know what "bigger than class C" means but the air brake is not a distinction used by DOT. Private owned RVs towed by their owners are generally exempt, work trailers greater than 10k lbs. are not.



What you can do occasionally passing a scale in CA will get you in serious trouble in some other states.



If you are pulling an enclosed cargo trailer or flatbed with cargo and engaged in commercial activity, whether you are hauling for hire or simply pulling your own backhoe to do a plumbing or landscaping job, and cross state lines it would be ill-advised to blow a scale.

a vehical that is 25,999lbs and under gcvw is a class c there is a length restriction too but i dont know what that is. as for air brakes my understanding is that you are supposed to have an air brake endorsement on your license to drive a truck with air brakes. however this little part is often over looked or they get around it with the reqistration

 

[HBarlow]

MHannink,

I have read and studied the Commercial Driver's Handbook, taken the exams and practical tests, and obtained a Class A CDL as well as completed commercial driver indoctrination with Horizon Transport, one of the prominent RV transport companies, and then drove commercially for three years.

I've never heard of any class of single vehicles, combination vehicles, or licenses having any connection to your 25,999 lbs. or class c statement. I think you are confusing your information.

It is legal for a commercial driver licensed in most states to drive a light truck and tow a trailer, for hire, with an ordinary (not commercial) driver's license as long as the combined weight or rated weight of the two vehicles do not exceed 26,000 lbs. In other words, if the actual or rated weight is 26,001 pounds, a Class C commercial driver's license is required. I did that commercially for-hire for a year and a half over the roads of 48 states and much of Canada being very careful never to pull a trailer with a GVWR greater than about 14,500#. IIRC the GVWR of my '01 Dodge was 11,500#.

Several states including CA in the recent three years or so have passed new laws that now require driver's in their state(s) who tow a large heavy RV trailer or drive a large motorhome with actual or rated weight exceeding 26,000# to have a Class A (non-commercial) driver's license which is very similar to a Class A CDL.

You are correct about the air brake endorsement part. I obtained my Class A CDL driving a Dodge dually pickup towing a borrowed gooseneck tandem axle dual wheel flatbed trailer with a GVWR of 20,000 lbs. The combined rated weight of the combination vehicle exceeded 26,000 lbs so it was legal to test with. I took and passed the air brake endorsement license exam but did not have an air brake equipped truck to borrow for the actual driving exam so never got the air brake endorsement. I have a Class A CDL but no air brake endorsement so cannot legally drive a semi-tractor w/air brakes.

I could, however, drive an 80,000 lb. tractor-trailer combination loaded, for hire, in all 49 states IF, and that's a big IF, I could find a semi-tractor with hydraulic brakes. As far as I know, there is no such tractor built or in existence.

 

[HBarlow]

I was just in CA a week ago, hauling trailers commercially, DOT numbers and all. The big signs that say NO PICKUPS are still up at all the scales. They have all the customers they need with real trucks. I doubt those of us driving pickups have anything to worry about, especially if not commercial.

Hello Gary,

Sounds like you quit bass fishing for a week or so and pulled a load or two?

I was talking to a former fellow RV transporter on the phone today. He lives up in IL and says he is seeing a few transporters working out of IN now. Says Quality and one or two others are hiring now and a driver he spoke with claimed Quality was keeping him busy.

What's your opinion? Any work out there?

 

[GAmes]

Hello Gary,



Sounds like you quit bass fishing for a week or so and pulled a load or two?



What's your opinion? Any work out there?

Went to see the grandkids in Tucson and pulled 10 speedboats out of Havasu to Long Beach (there were about 100 bank foreclosed boats there). The only regular tows of new RVs are going into Canada. Came back Just in time to catch this beauty.

 

[MMeier]

I was just in CA a week ago, hauling trailers commercially, DOT numbers and all. The big signs that say NO PICKUPS are still up at all the scales. They have all the customers they need with real trucks. I doubt those of us driving pickups have anything to worry about, especially if not commercial.

Last I checked, anything with a "pick up style bed and tailgate" does not have to stop at a California scalehouse, even if being operated for hire, or commercially. When I had my deal going , I used to stop all the time at the Cajon scale, one day they gave me a level 1... with 8. 5' of container hanging off the back. After passing the level 1 , he explained why they pulled me in, "don't have time for pick ups, you and your 2 buddies do not have to come in here. "

 

[MMeier]

Went to see the grandkids in Tucson and pulled 10 speedboats out of Havasu to Long Beach (there were about 100 bank foreclosed boats there). The only regular tows of new RVs are going into Canada. Came back Just in time to catch this beauty.

What are the boats paying?