Calling All Pinewood Derby Racers!

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Beaumont Tx

Heads flying off my axe and sledgehammers!

I'm getting involved in my Son's first Pine Wood Derby with the Cub Scouts. Oo.

I am looking to make a good showing, and want to do well. Basically the rules are BSA (Boy Scouts of America), and require the use of the wheels and axles from the kit, while allowing any body, as long as the dimensions are good and it's under 5 ounces. My son and I have decided to get a rough styled body and I will focus on "blueprinting" the rolling stock. I'm looking for advice from fellow racers and veterans on topics like axle lubricant and wheel finishes and weight placment.

The council PWD Chairman is in our troop, so we have a slight home turf advantage, but I want to think outside his box. I've been to Stan Pope's website.
 
My 7 year old and I made his 1st one a few months ago. We had a ball. :)



As far as going high tech, one of the other fathers is a rocket scientist (really!) and they went all out, some kind of high tech lube, super aerodynamic shape, some kind of high tech "space" finish, the works. They got beat BAD by a kid that cut his block in the shaped of a pickup truck, painted it with some safety orange paint and put it together himself with no weights. :-laf:-laf



Just have fun. One of the fastest ones there was just a block of wood painted like a school bus and the most interesting one was a flat piece of wood painted green that looked like a tennis court complete with a net and 2 players. ;)



Scott
 
I'm already having a blast! I'm so psyched about working something up, haven't touched the Duster in a while, so I'm itching to race SOMETHING!

All kidding aside, the wheels are real out of round, I might have to buy another set or two to get some good picks :-laf
 
When I was in scouts my vehicle had a vertical triangle wedge of lead on the rear we drilled little holes in it to get our weight down. The car won.
 
I never raced, but some of my friends did & talked about sanding the wheels for some benifit. As far as im concerned, just graphite the axles and HAVE FUN!!! Parents can get too involved, and as you saw, "over engineer" the project.

I hope my son gets into cubs just for this.
 
I am a Tiger Cubs den leader

I am the Tiger Cubs Den Leader for pack 969 out of Fairfield, OH. We are hard at work on our Pinewood derby cars here too!. I am not quite sure yet, but I was told by the "elders" that the cars have to be at 5 oz. no over -or- under weigts.



Are they allowed to be under weight?



E7
 
pine derbys are cool and all, but have any of you ever done the CO2 car races? Now these are fun. Not only do you have to build a car that is super aerodynamic, but meets minumum qualifications, AND can withstand the stop at the end of the track into a foam block and the pressure exerted from the CO2 cartridge itself.



If you dont know what I am talking about, here ya go... Science of Speed -Capture Your Dragster in 3-D!
 
I am the Tiger Cubs Den Leader for pack 969 out of Fairfield, OH. We are hard at work on our Pinewood derby cars here too!. I am not quite sure yet, but I was told by the "elders" that the cars have to be at 5 oz. no over -or- under weigts.



Are they allowed to be under weight?



E7



The understanding I have is, yes, the car can be underweight but of course they say to push for 4. 999999 ounces. I took my son to the hobby shop to pick out a pre cut body. He had about 5 choices (some real cool), and uncoached and by his own will, he picked out a pick-up! It even looks Dodge-ish. We then went to the paint section, and he picked a nice Red. I will post some pics as we get going.

I don't want to out smart myself. I just want to do some Hot Rodding!
 
pine derbys are cool and all, but have any of you ever done the CO2 car races? Now these are fun. Not only do you have to build a car that is super aerodynamic, but meets minumum qualifications, AND can withstand the stop at the end of the track into a foam block and the pressure exerted from the CO2 cartridge itself.



If you dont know what I am talking about, here ya go... Science of Speed -Capture Your Dragster in 3-D!



Is that the CO2 car? They must go quick! That is a cool way to photo the car too.
 
If you want to go for fairly fast, I always used a simple wedge shape, drilled holes and put weights close to the back, sanded wheels round, graphited axles, and then won!
 
me and the manager at the shop built a car for the bosses son that dominated, it wasn't even close and the car was under weight the boss said it was almost embarrassing how bad it was stomping the rest, one thing we did was to chuck the wheels in the drill press and thinned the running surface down to a razors edge, then we drilled new and true axle holes instead of using the slots that allow the wheels to flex, we packed graphite in the wheels and ran em on a drill at high speed and repacked em to build up a good layer, we selected a aerodynamic car and drilled it to put the lead inside and bondo'd the hole up, if you mod the wheels like we did you must not remove the BSA that's molded into the wheel or they probably will not allow you to run with them
 
TyThompson has the tried and true approach. I am Cubmaster of our local pack, have been doing it for about 10 years and have dealt with literally thousands of cars over that time. The typical winners are either wedge or "dog bone" shape. Sometimes you will get a car so fast it amazes you, the little solenoid drops and it launches down the track like it was catapulted. Other times the exact same design will loaf along like a Yugo - a lot of luck is involded in the Derby.



You want your car as close to 5. 0 ounces as possible, because you are relying completely on potential energy to get your car on the go. We have seen people try every possible location of weight, from all of it in the back drilled in and bondo'd, to all of it in the front the same way, to thin sheets of lead distributed around. Weight in the back seems to be the most consistent winner.



In some areas they are extremely strict about how the car is made. Lathe turning of the wheels is a no-no in official competition around here for example. Polishing the wheels is usually fine, but they can't be polished / turned to an edge. People found early on that lathe turning the wheels to a very sharp "V" profile gave better performance due to less surface area and friction on the track.



I hate to say it, but fathers often ruin the contest for the kids. There is always some guy who thinks he is doing his kid a favor by ultra-engineering the car to give him an edge over the other boys. Everybody wants their kid to win, but the Derby is supposed to be about a boy building his car, maybe with some help from Dad. If he wins with a car that Dad took to work and built for him, what lesson is he learning? Every year we have to deal with this, and it is impossible to really sort out because there are some kids who can flat build a nice car, and some Dads who build some that viciously suck. Just desserts IMHO :-laf



As mentioned in the previous post, it is not unusual to have the sloppiest looking car in the race be the fastest, and that gets some of the Dads fired up when their boy's Thunderbolt Greaseslapper gets beat :-laf :-laf. One of our leaders several years back built a car out of a piece of beautiful walnut with all the tricks, and got beat badly by a kid who just left the block in raw rectangular form with some quarters stuck on for weight :-laf :-laf



To inject an element of fairness, our pack has an "Open" class race after the individual den races. In the "Open" class, anyone can race any car they want to, it just has to meet the size and weight constraints. In each Den race, we award a "Best of Show" trophy which is presented to the best "obviously built by a boy" car. In the Open race, the Best of Show is given to truly the best looking car, and there are some real doozies.



Pinewood Derby is a lot of fun. Tell the boys to do their best and cheer for the winner, whoever it is.



PS - Those with Tiger Cubs who are in their first Derby should talk to the boys ahead of time and explain how things work, that only 1 boy can win. Nowadays in much of their life "everybody gets a trophy" so it can break their little hearts when their jalopie doesn't win. It's a valuable learning experience all around, for parents and kids.



PPS - You can always tell right off the bat when a Dad has built the car. When they show up for weigh-in, Dad will walk in with a little box holding the car like it is the Hope Diamond. The kid will stand there dejectedly wanting to play with the car, but Dad will snap at him or gently smack his hand away from the car. At weigh-in, Dad watches the digital scale like a hawk and suspiciously gazes at the competition to be sure he isn't getting screwed out of a fraction of an ounce somewhere. During the race, Dad will nearly soil himself with excitement :-laf. Sadly, some Dads will cheat too, trying to add some extra weight to the car after weigh-in, so we have to have a table set up with a leader watching, after weigh-in nobody touches the car until race time. Never seen a boy try to cheat yet, but the Dads sometimes want to win just a little too badly. Had to have a talk with a couple of them over the years.



Paradoxically, nothing makes a man more indignantly outraged than getting caught doing something he knows is wrong :-laf :-laf
 
Yhea Mike, I'm kinda guilty here. Although he really is doing the steps. He picked out the body style, he pretty much shot the car today- runs in the paint and all, and he will sink in the nails. I am making sure the axles are polished, the best wheels are picked (I bought 2 sets) and prepped, and making sure everything is straight. Most improtant, I am trying to show him sportsmanship and making a good effort in building something.

We had our meeting last night and the leader had the scale. I dragged him over and made him participate in putting the car and pieces on the scale, which we snuck up on 4. 95 OZ without paint.



They announced a workshop at the local Loews where you only bring the kit, and they will help build a complete car. He understands that we won't have to go because we have our own "race car shop" right in our own basement. It's been a great experience so far!
 
Heres some hints...

I have built 5 Pinewood derby cars and 2 of them have NEVER been beat in my area

1. Keep the body thin
Mark the front of the car from the bottom 3/8" up and in the back 3/4" up, draw a line and cut

2. If you can lengthen the wheel base DO IT
The factory wheelbase should be 4-1/4". increase it to 5-3/4

3. ADD weight in the right spot, the limit should be 5 oz
Keep it in the rear, Drill 3 holes in the side in the back 3/8" up from the bottom
Each hole at these measurements from the back of the car. .
3/8"then 5/8" from that hole then 5/8" from that one.
I melted Buckshot and poured it in:-laf

4. Balance the body
the balance point should be 1-1/4" from the rear axle

5. sand your axles
use a drill and some emery cloth then polish them, look under a magnifying glass and make sure there smooth

6. sand the wheels smooth

7. powdered grafite


Any questions??

Now that i took the fun out of a kids sport good luck:-laf


Michael


P. S. i am a Eaglescout
 
My favorite car I built for myself to run in "Open" class was the legendary HERSHEY SQUIRT. One of the kids had his block split in two longways, and one of the slabs was almost perfectly flat and 3/8" thick. He got a new block, but since I usually build a car I took the slab and hemmed and hawed over it, then decided to make it look like a candy bar. I was lazy, so after I got the right amount of weight in the rear I just took a big Hershey candy bar and took the wrapper off carefully. A bit of glue on the bottom of the block to snug the wrapper in place, and presto - looked good enough to eat and didn't take me 10 minutes to do :-laf :-laf

It wasn't very fast though, because the wheels ended up fraying the paper wrapper and rubbing. I told the boys the only reason they beat me was because Hersheys must have put molasses in their chocolate bars :-laf :-laf

I was able to convince several people who were only able to look at from a distance on the table that I had painted it by hand. "I'm a perfectionist", I sez :-laf
 
By the way, there is a "tune-up" kit you can get from the Scout shop in your area that includes a template to properly align the wheels (extremely important). There is also a Pinewood Derby "speed secrets" book that some of the guys have bought online, most of what they advise has been listed in this thread already.
 
I have built 5 Pinewood derby cars and 2 of them have NEVER been beat in my area



1. Keep the body thin

Mark the front of the car from the bottom 3/8" up and in the back 3/4" up, draw a line and cut



2. If you can lengthen the wheel base DO IT

The factory wheelbase should be 4-1/4". increase it to 5-3/4



3. ADD weight in the right spot, the limit should be 5 oz

Keep it in the rear, Drill 3 holes in the side in the back 3/8" up from the bottom

Each hole at these measurements from the back of the car. .

3/8"then 5/8" from that hole then 5/8" from that one.

I melted Buckshot and poured it in:-laf



4. Balance the body

the balance point should be 1-1/4" from the rear axle



5. sand your axles

use a drill and some emery cloth then polish them, look under a magnifying glass and make sure there smooth



6. sand the wheels smooth



7. powdered grafite





Any questions??



Now that i took the fun out of a kids sport good luck:-laf





Michael





P. S. i am a Eaglescout



Thanks, Michael. Here's where I stand on your list. If anyone has any comments, please feel free!

1. The body won't be that slick, I had my eye on something like that, but it is his race. The beltline of the truck is pretty low.

2. Can't change wheelbase, the jig they put the car in looks at where the axles are.

3. I put most of the weight across the rear, just ahead of the rear wheels up high. I still need to place . 75 oz.

4. I will try to get that balance when I place that weight. I AM afraid of too much rear weight causing stability problems up front. Is this ever a problem?

5. I put a lot of work here and got a crank journal finish with 220-600-crocus cloth. I put a lot of work in under the head.

6. I'm working on the wheels now. I got extras and picked the least radial runout (. 007-. 015) they were all close though. I have some plastic glaze polish that put a nice finish on the rejects.

7. I am using graphite, but was looking into a synthetic at first.



QUESTION, What is a good wheel end play setting? I see some "experienced" cars with big clearance. I see that as a waste, but does that let the car settle in on the track?



Thanks!
 
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