Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Cams, the $64,000 question

[Nyoest]

I currently have a PDR quick spool cam and I liked what it did for the truck. Lot less smoke and a bit better spool up. I notice it more in the upper rpm than anything, above 2,000 it's biting like a sow coming out of the gate. My timing housing is leaking oil and I've decided I might as well change the cam while I'm there. Again.



My truck is a 96 4x4 5spd 4. 10 dd southbend with a new set of 19. 5s. Timing is at 15. 75 degrees with afc spring kit and boost elbow set to 35 psi Currently stock turbo and injectors The turbo starts boost about 1,500 -1,600 rpm and by 1,800 it's off to the races. Best mileage with old stock tires was 21. 8 mpg empty. My cruise egt at 60-65 is always about 650 degrees. Loads are no problem, but more is always better!



what cam/ grind have or are you running and what are your impressions? I spoke with Hamilton cams this morning and their info sounded promising, but they offer five different cams for the 12 valve. Gentleman I spoke with said he was getting 25 mpg with his 97. I'm from Missouri so your gonna have to show me before I can beleive that.



I need to be able to tow and am not interested in having to fly cut pistons.



TIA,



Neal

 

[Nyoest]

Wow, I guess nobody wants to play?

 

[Red_Rattler]

I'll play what are you looking to gain? more usable power lower in the rpm band vs the quick spool or?

 

[Nyoest]

I was hoping to discuss the driving attributes and mpg changes of the different cams.



The person I spoke with at Hamilton said it would bring in more power lower, as much as 100 horse. Somewhat hard to believe.



The PDR cam although good has been out several years and just like anything improvements are being made all the time.



I have a customer that wants my current cam so it wont cost much to try something new and maybe get some more horse.



I want my cake and to eat it also.

 

[Red_Rattler]

I have zero experience with aftermarket cams in real world apps but that will be changing, my buddy picked up a Hamilton 188 220 and I'm looking at gettin the ol 181 210. But yes its very doable to gain 100 horse, they by far have the best setup avalible out there. Plus you wont be getting a regrind... .

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Lawrence and I designed cams for 12 and 24 valve engines while Diesel Dynamics was alive. If you give me the spec's, I can comment.

 

[Nyoest]

Here are the two listed on the website, I'm sure more are available.





Street/Strip (best fuel economy) 181/210 106. 5LSA

INT: . 290" Lift

EXH: . 320" Lift

Aggressive street/strip 188/220 108LSA

INT: . 310" Lift

EXH: . 320" Lift

 

[SRay]

Nyoest: "Go das biggin shtickin for kangaroo choppin or go home" sounds like a good cam to use. :-laf:-laf

 

[Nyoest]

Yup, gotta get a cam with a lower start point for the torque curve or boost sooner. Pulled a 25 ft gooseneck for the first time since I put the 19. 5s on today. Most people would be fine with it but, well, you know... .....

SRay you are so helpful!

 

[SRay]

Nyoest: you're very welcome!:-laf



How was the pdr quick spool cam with the gooseneck?

 

[Nyoest]

It's not bad. But couple it with some advanced timing and some tall heavy tires and it chews on it for a bit before it takes off. Off course stock all it did was gum on it.

 

[SRay]

Nyoest: would you prefer the way my goat is set up? All torque and grunt?:-laf I can only give about 1/4-1/2 throttle before clutch slips.



I've had great success at pulling heavy stuff even with a I TRIED TO BY-PASS THE CUSSING FILTER clutch. I've also learned to start off better at sled pulling. First time at sled pulling, the goat went 75 ft and clutch belched white smoke from underneath#@$%!. After that I got better and now go 226 ft until Toyos start spinning.



I've got huge torque and love it, the Cummins was not working at all at pulling sleds or heavy trailers. Maybe it's over working since it's rated only for "180 hp". :-laf



I'm hoping a cam will push the goat over the clutch slipping 942 tq it has already laid down. Maybe 1,300 tq with same hp.

 

[Nyoest]

Well if you hadn't punched Santa maybe your clutch would be under the tree!

Well do enlighten us to your recipe of clutch roasting torque! Inquiring minds want to know

So far I've done/got: 16 degrees timing, afc spring kit, 60 # valve springs, PDR cam 4gsk 10 plate and boost elbow. Truck just hazes good until about 2,200 rpm then it smokes fair. I don't like smoke. Smoke isn't cool. Unless its on the track. The fuel plate alone was enough to finish off the stock clutch.

Dont get me wrong, the twelve valve gets Er done. Its just kinda of like using a crappy computer. Thinking, thinking, thinking, ok now BOOYAH.

Also, the load I was pulling was a good portion of it. I bought some used trusses 80 miles away. 16 total but with the width and height 8 was all I could haul. Yesterday's load pulled hard and hot, never less than 900 degrees on the pyro even at cruise. Today's load got to speed easier and cruised about 850 degrees. Only difference was today's load the truss on top was covered with tin. Best I can figure the air flow over the truck then down through the trusses produced a lot of drag.

When we went to Columbus we borrowed a 5 Er that was just about 17k. I towed it 800 miles with no problems at all. Power is not lacking. Just slow.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

I wouldn't use either of those cams if you gave them to me. It is clear those guys don't understand turbocharged diesels.

 

[Nyoest]

Joe could you please elaborate? I have plenty of diesel experience just not knowledge on what lift of what duration does what. Not even sure what the stock one was.

It seems there are plenty of people that can wing a lot of numbers around but when you ask them to translate it to real world experience they loose some steam. Kinda like the salesman I spoke with. But he did get 25 mpg though... .....

 

[Doug_Janowski]

I wouldn't use either of those cams if you gave them to me. It is clear those guys don't understand turbocharged diesels.

Nyoest Also said "Joe could you please elaborate? I have plenty of diesel experience just not knowledge on what lift of what duration does what. Not even sure what the stock one was.



Joe, Im in the same boat. Info on cams is hard to find. Now when it comes to SBC (small block chevy) I can build a budget 450HP stroker, but my new interest is 12V cummins. I and other mature tweekers sure could use any info you have or point me in a direction. Thanks Joe and Nyoest.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

To quote Mark Chapple, owner of TST and engineer with Cummins for 33 years: "Overlap is poison for a turbocharged engine. " When you see long durations combined with tight lobe centers, you see a cam for a gasser but not a turbo diesel.

 

[JohnsonJim]

So Joe... in your opinion... are there any cams out on the market today that are worth it?



Seems that our choices are hamilton, colt and the pdr. Others are out there... not sure of the specs but isn't there just the two above cam grinders?



I live at 7000 feet and was looking for a twin set up and was gonna do a cam as well to help with egts and lack of air at this elevation. I will subscribe to this thread and hope some more info come out if it. Thanks in advance.



Jim

 

[Nyoest]

I've resigned to the fact cam numbers are black magic and trying to discuss them is bad mojo. But if you call anyone that makes/grinds cams they will tell you they make the best one on the market. They can't tell you why, or be patient enough to answer your questions but they might hold still long enough to get your CC info.



Sorry I've just dealt with too many aftermarket shops that can give two craps less about you spending a wheel barrow full of money on something that really doesn't deliver.



Where's smokey yunick when you need him?

 

[SRay]

Nyoest: Ah! You know Smokey Yunik? Apparantly no one in the auto sector likes his hot air engine.

Shawn