Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Can Injectors be Bombed?

[krs]

Hi.

Looking through my old Cummins 12 valve parts book I see that injectors are broken down part by part and listed under CPL numbers as options (a page shows an injector that looks like all the other injector pages and titles the page "option PP2175" and so on )... ... ... Does anyone know if Cummins sells the nozzle assembly (two part - nozzle and pin), compression spring, and the like seperately? And if they do, are the injector bodies the same between the various injectors?



Should be obvious where I'm going with these questions - can we use one injector body to make many injectors? Can I change my 215s into 370s, can 180s be made into 215s, and like that?



Probably an old idea, huh?

 

[T. Baker]

Ok I don't know the answer to your question. Why mess with all that when you can buy 370 hp injectors brand new for $300 that will give you all the fuel you can use and then some?

 

[krs]

I don't know prices of nozzles yet, but they are small parts easily changed. For some people or some engines 370 injectors are not the answer. It may be hard to tell sometimes but there are owners who do not care to act as unpaid mosquito controllers spewing black smoke instead of white DDT as they tool down the road. For others heat is a more important factor than power and it's seldom the case that pouring raw fuel on a fire will put the fire out. Still other people enjoy experimentation - even innovation which sometimes gives an outlandish result even while also seeming to give them a fine level of satisfaction. Why, there's even an owner somewhere who has engaged such perversity to the point of installing a large overpowered diesel engine into a small boxy and inadequate vehicle. Imagine! So maybe all it means is to each his or her own, eh?

 

[mfunderburgh]

I don't know for sure if cummins sells tips or not but at one time enterprise engine told me they were having a hard time getting 370's but they could change the tips in my 180 injectors to make them 370's. I ended up waiting a few months and getting brand new 370's in the end. Matt

 

[chrleb1]

There is also another option you can follow. You could have your stock tip extrude honed also. That is when they flow an abrasive fluid through the tip to open it up. This can give you custon hp injectors.

 

[vssman]

Recently I was looking into the same thing and took apart my stock 180 injector and compared it to a non-intercooled 1st gen. What I came up with is that the parts should be able to be interchanged. i. e. 1st gens can use 370's by changing the tops/springs due to the different injector nut sizes & pop pressures. Actually, I watched HoleshotHolset change the tips on his TDI Beetle and it seems straight forward. As for using a DynaFlow to open the holes, I was told that the 1st gen'ers do more of that with the limited availability of injector options "out of the box".

 

[T. Baker]

Quote from KRS "Why, there's even an owner somewhere who has engaged such perversity to the point of installing a large overpowered diesel engine into a small boxy and inadequate vehicle. Imagine! So maybe all it means is to each his or her own, eh?"



WOW KRS, I gues I offended you somehow?! I'm not sure who told you that 370's blow black smoke everywhere but they are wrong. They only smoke if you don't have enough air for your fuel like any injector. I like my scout because it is small and I can park anywhere and it is narrow for tight places. Also it is not filled with plastic and microchips and it has a solid front axle with unlocking hubs and leaf springs.



AS FOR OVERPOWERED! THANK YOU! Oo.

 

[krs]

I was at Cummins this morning and asked if they sell the nozzle/pin assemblies. The counter guy said that they probably could be ordered but that it isn't Cummins's way to do that so they don't stock them. They don't change injectors even, much less injector internals, without also removing and calibrating the pump and checking the whole power units over in order to maintain a balanced system. He seemed reluctant to give me a price and I didn't want to press him because I like being on his good side. Still it seems to me that changing those internals would give a way to 'tune' that's more refined than simply and continually going for that elusive "more". Or is it all done by a good pump guy?



"WOW KRS, I gues I offended you somehow?!"



What hey? Are you that member, T. Baker? I hadn't even looked and now after seeing the pictures of your Scout it mystifies me that you might think that I might have been referring to you... ... ... It's a Beautiful Scout, T. Baker, and I mean that with all of my heart. I truly do.



Err, by the way, is yours by chance an ex postal vehicle? The post office had them both right and left hand drive. until the mid 1970s.

 

[JoeBioDiesel]

I have gotten different plunger/holder sets for a few injectors. The last time was because we swapped an older non-turbo VW engine into a turbo car. The turbo car had a different nozzle number and different crack pressures. There wasn't much of a power change, but the mileage improved with the right injection pressures.



Joe

 

[ndurbin]

I changed my 160 hp injectors to 215 hp injectors by changing the tips. Which ran about $250-$280 doing them myself. If you have to change intermediate (sp?) plates it'll cost more. You can get different pop off pressures by putting shims behind the spring. You can get the parts thru any Bosch dealer. Since the injectors and injection pumps are made by Bosch.



The main thing that changes between the tips is orifice size and how many orifices there are if I remember correctly.



Most shops wont mess with the injectors and pumps, they'll pull them out and send them to a shop (like the one I work at) that specializes in injection pumps and injectors.

 

[Diesel Freak]

KRS, where in Washington are you?



I am in Battleground.



If you really want some more power, go with a set of EDM's



Mach 2's will do you just fine!

 

[krs]

ndurbin, that's exactly what I started thinking about when I saw part number listings for nozzles. I used to tune Weber carburators and had hundreds of jets to get them working at various rpm ranges. So I wondered if it is possible to tune injectors for specific conditions with relatively cheap changes. I'd be surprised if diesel racers aren't already doing this but it would deppend on there being more of them than just the ones that are spec'd for OEM installations. Like a range of nozzles between what's in 215s and what's in 370s?



There are no Freaks in Battleground!



Diesel freak - we're neighbors maybe. I get my mail through the battleground PO but I'm out of town toward Vernersborg on Berry Road. I've got a longbed version of your truck and two 12 valve other ones and I'll probably be taking advantage of the current 20% deal on EDMs - who could resist?

 

[ndurbin]

When I get my 370s I'll have to compare the tips. I still have my old 160hp tips somewhere.

 

[Diesel Freak]

KRS.



I live off 19th street... . over behind the High School.



hmm we need to have a Battleground BOMB party someday.