Can't find source of 5 amp ignition off draw.

[Loren]

My 2000 model 2500 sat four days in the heated garage. When I tried to drive it, both batteries were dead. After charging the batteries (I hope the Optima deep-cycle batteries really are deep-cycle. ) I found a slightly pulsating 5-1/2 amp. draw with the ignition off.

My troubleshooting has narrowed the problem to somewhere downstream, or inside, of the power distribution center (the box with the heavy-duty fuses under the hood). Removing the lead from the battery to the PDC cuts the current draw.

I tried pulling individual fuses, including the 140 amp. main fuse, as well as the relays. The current draw did not stop with any fuse or relay removed. It also did not stop when I pulled the Ignition Off Draw fuse at the driver's door fuse panel.

I have tapped the current downstream of the 140 amp. main fuse to supply power to a U. S. Gear exhaust brake and to supply power to a Painless Wiring secondary fuse panel. This was done by adding an additional wire to the stud on the fused side of the main fuse, not by cutting or piercing any wire. Disconnecting the wires to these accessories does not stop the current draw.

I have also bypassed the fog lamp relay with a jumper wire to allow fog lamp operation with high beams. Removing the jumper does not stop the current.

I'm baffled. The only thing I have done so far that has stopped the current is disconnect the red wire from the left battery to the PDC. Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions?

If I can't find the problem, I'll have to take the truck into my dealership, but I expect that they will try to tell me that my accessories caused the problem somehow. Of course, that's possible, but it doesn't seem to be the case. I'd sure like to fix this myself and would welcome any hints.

Loren

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2000 Quad Cab, 4x4, short bed, six-speed: U. S. Gear exhaust brake, MileMarker Select Drive viscous coupling, Velvet-Ride spring shackles, Painless Wiring circuit box, Optima yellow-top batteries, Super-Glide 5th wheel hitch, Reese folding ball gooseneck hitch, Drawtite front hitch receiver, Tekonsha Sentinel brake controller, Westin nerf bars, Clarion sound system
1995 Standard Cab, 4x4, long bed, automatic: Firestone Ride-Rite air springs, torque converter lock-up switch, 4" cat-back exhaust, Reese 20K 5th wheel hitch, Reese gooseneck hitch, Hayes Micro Control trailer brake controller, 100 gallon bed-mounted fuel tank with 12 volt electric pump & fill nozzle, Swiss Cap fiberglass cap

 

[DMC]

Disconnect alternator see if draw is still there. You may have a bad one.
Just a possibility.


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D McGrady 1996 Club Cab 6BTA 5. 9 12 Valve All Stock Except K&N and Wrangler A/T 305/70/16 136 K and going strong.

 

[Loren]

Good idea, McGrady. It didn't work for me, but it was still a good idea. While I was disconnecting the alternator I realized that the current is not pulsating after all. I just didn't know how to read my new digital multimeter.

The other revelation I had was that the engineers who design these electrical connectors ought to be hanged. It seems to me that the very least Dodge could do would be to pick one or two connector types that work well and use them throughout the entire truck, but NOOOO! They have to use a different kind for every single connection, or so it seems. I don't think I've run into the same kind twice yet.

I don't think it would matter, but the day before I put it in the garage I installed TST's injectors and adjusted the valves. The valve adjustment involved turning the engine over by using the nut on the alternator. I also removed and replaced the intake grid heater. Could I have caused this problem myself?

I'm still hunting for the "leak". If I find it, I'll post a note with the explanation. Meanwhile... HELP!!

Loren

 

[Loren]

More information:

I went back to the PDC panel and started pulling all the fuses until I had them all out. With a meter attached, I re-installed each fuse. I found that in order to avoid the power draw, I must NOT install the following fuses:
50 amp Battery
20 amp Engine Control 2
20 amp Hazard
40 amp Trailer
40 amp ABS

Does anyone out there know what these systems have in common?

Loren

 

[Alan Reagan]

Looks like they have the brake system in common. Have you added backup lights, a brake controller, or anything that may be causing a short. What I would try is pulling the relays one at at time and see if you can isolate doing that. A relay may be stuck closed causing the draw. It may be something in the area of the fuel heater or similar. I haven't got my service manual here or I would try to look at the schematics.

One more thing. I noticed that it stopped when you disconnected one of the batteries. That current draw could be a bad battery and the good battery is putting current to the bad battery to equalize (voltage sources connected in parallel are equal). If you have a short in the bad battery, the good battery will continue to supply current to the bad battery until the potential is equal which in your case occurs when the batteries die. Disconnect both batteries and measure the voltage on both batteries. If you notice while making the voltage measurement that the voltage continues to drop, the battery is suspect. That sounds like your problem.

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2001 HO 6 spd 2500, 4. 10 LSD, Towing Package, Electric Brakes, SPA EGT/Boost Gauges, Fog Lights, Real Backup Lights, Molded Running Boards

[This message has been edited by Alan Reagan (edited 01-24-2001). ]

 

[illflem]

Loren,I have a two battery JD tractor that had the same problem. Luckily for me the electrical system consisted of only about a dozen wires and I was easily able to trace the problem to a bad cell in one battery. Both batteries were less than a year old so I was able to get a straight trade for a new one. I used the same method Alan describes to trace it down.

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95' 25004X4,AT,Driftwood,Banks Stinger,Warn fender flairs and running boards(work truck)
95 3500,5 speed 3:54,BD E-brake,Driftwood,Banks&Psycotty,34,000 GCVW apple and tractor hauler(works harder truck)

 

[Loren]

Thanks, Alan. Your idea made me remember that I installed some Slide-N-Lock tie-down rails at about the same time as the injectors. I had to remove each taillight assembly to install one of the nuts on each rail, so I unplugged them to see if the current stopped. Unfortunately, that wasn't the problem either.

I do have a brake controller installed (see signature), but haven't done anything new with that. I found that if I unplug the brake controller I can install the 40 amp. trailer fuse without starting the current, but I can't install any of the others. I don't think the controller is the problem.

I took your suggestion and pulled all the relays from the PDC, but the current remained. I also pulled all the small, blade- type fuses in the PDC, but that wasn't the problem either.

When I installed the injectors, I moved the intake heater out of the way, so I tried disconnecting all the wires to that too, just in case I messed something up with that. No luck. Also no luck disconnecting the control wires to the big heater relay down under the PDC on the left fender.

I may have misled you. The draw doesn't stop until BOTH batteries are disconnected. It starts again if EITHER battery is reconnected. It doesn't seem to be a battery problem. I almost wish it were. Two new Optima yellow-tops would be easy to replace, and right now it would seem a cheap fix.

The one bit of good news is that I finally found two connectors that match. The right and left taillight assemblies use the same connectors.

I will probably call the dealer today and make arrangements to get the truck checked out by them. I think I've tried about everything I'm capable of doing.

Loren

[This message has been edited by Loren (edited 01-24-2001). ]

 

[DaveO]

Loren,

I agree with Alan. It sounds related to brakes/tailight circuit. I don't have a schematic or service manual, so I can't comment further.

If you can get your hands on an inductive current clamp, it will be much easier to track it down. This allows you to "clamp" over a wire, and measure it's current.

Unfortunately the dealer will probably be lost trying to diagnose this problem. Electronics are usually not a mechanics forte'.

Dave

 

[Alan Reagan]

Good one, Loren. #ad
#ad
I started to suggest that, but the 5 amp draw confused me. Glad you found it.

 

[illflem]

Alright Loren,you owe us all a cold one next time though. At least it didn't cost you any money to fix it.
As far as all the connectors being different,that's a good thing if you ever take it all apart it makes the reinstall idiot proof. I just put a new engine in a Honda Accord,I was overjoyed that every one of the 25 or so connectors was different,would've been a hassle to label everything.

 

[DMC]

Loren:
This is kind of amusing, as I finished off a battery the same way. Left map light on, over nite temps in the 20's. Morning comes very weak battery. Plug in charger, leave on all day. Discover map light illuminating interior of truck late P. M. Dumb look on face. I ended up having to replace the driver side battery a few weeks later. This was a good opportunity to ponder allthe possibilities of drain sources. #ad
#ad


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D McGrady 1996 Club Cab 6BTA 5. 9 12 Valve All Stock Except K&N and Wrangler A/T 305/70/16 136 K and going strong.

 

[CumminsAholic]

Loren,
I was gonna say the map lights too. I did the same thing. Pretty much ruined my batteries, ah well now I have better ones. 1000 cranking and 900 CCA... . 1800 CCA total, Bombed batteries. #ad



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1998. 5 2500, 4x4, SB, Red Sport, Agate Interior, Quad Cab, O. H. Console, Auto, 4. 10 LSD, Trailer Tow and Camper Special Packages, Mopar Aluminum Nerf Bars, Spray In Bedliner, Pioneer/Jensen System, 255/85's, Bd Adjustable Preformance Box w/boost module, Boost Elbow, 4" Exhaust Split Into Two 3" w/5" cans, K+N Scotty Style, Exhaust Blanket, Bill K's Valve Body, Etc, Etc... .

 

['956Wheel]

If we don't make mistakes we aren't doing anything! Admiration here... most would shut up and let it die! Someday I'll tell you how a '63 390 Ford runs with no rockers... yes, late, in a hurry, lots of brew (homemade)... . they don't run w/o rockers #ad
#ad


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9535hundred

 

[Dane]

Great thread guys! Some thoughts-

1) These gremlins are usually related to the last modification you did. Could you have fried something in the alternator or connected to the alternator?

2) 60 watts is enough power to make something warm.

3) If you can, get a clip on current meter or one of those cheaper "short detectors" sold by some auto electric supplys.

4) Freeze spray - great for finding shorts on circuit boards, may help here. Problem is it's expensive.

I would spray the fuses in question, connect one battery and see which one defrosts first.

Same thing could be done on the wire harness. Spread the harness wires enough to see them all and spray till they are frosty and then connect the battery to see which on defrosts first.

Good luck and keep us posted!

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2001 HO 6 speed Regular Cab SLT 4x4 3. 54 anti spin 2500. Used for the daily grind and sneaking away to some secret Baja beaches toting a cabover

 

[Loren]

Greetings.

I am pleased to report that I am an idiot. When I called the dealer service people (Batesville, Indiana, Chrysler-Dodge, etc. Great dealership. ) to make an appointment, the service guy didn't believe that I was getting a 5 amp reading. He said it was unrealistic. I went back and re-read the instructions that came with the new digital multimeter and, sure enough, I had one lead plugged into the wrong terminal.

After I fixed that, it didn't take long to track down the problem to the fact that I had left the two map lights on when I left four days earlier. WHAT A DOPE! I can't believe that I spent so much time with this (besides bothering you all with my problem) all because I didn't understand how to read a meter properly. Not to mention the foolishness of leaving those lights on for four days. Maybe I need a parking and securing checklist for my truck like those we use on airplanes.

Please accept my humblest apologies for taking your time for my mistake. Maybe someone will still learn something from all this. I sure did.

Thanks to you all for your help. It's nice to know there are resources here if I need them. I hope to use them more wisely in the future.

Loren

[This message has been edited by Loren (edited 01-24-2001). ]

 

[Ladders]

Loren, I just picked up on this and ..... Feel good that you can be such a GUD example to all of us that get in a hurry and even tho we do use the same piece of "test" equipment all the time, we can still use it with the leads plugged in wrong. Thats what we get for "loaning" it out and not "checking" it when it comes back. Even criminals have a good side - they are gud examples of BAD people!!!

Thanks agn for reminding us to READ and heed instructions.

SOTSU!!
\\BF//

 

[DennyDay]

Hell. it made me feel good that I'm not the only one to get caught up in the gremlin s**tstorms. Alot of good ideas for tracking were the best result, especially the freeze spray trick - never used it for wire tracing, but will next time

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Denny
'99 2500 4X4 White short Q cab to much added to put here

 

[illflem]

Denny,a infrared thermometer gun works just as well for finding warm wires,plus it can be used for 1000's of other things.

 

[mopars1]

I just have one thing to add that helps when tracking a draw from the batteries while the vehicle is sitting. All the posts about the pdc and the larger fuses is all good, but you could have gone one step further and possibley found the draw much sooner. I never saw a post about pulling the fuses inside the vehicle. These smaller amp fuses serve after the larger fuses and you would have lost the draw when you pulled the fuse for the interior lights. That is the place to start when there is an extra draw on the system. If that does not pan out then go for the larger fuses in the pdc. Just my pennies worth.